Reuseful Energy
Prakash:
Basic law of technology is you cant get more output than input.
You say your cylinder is rotating to do a function. What is rotating it?
May be an electric motor or an engine.
This prime-mover has to develop torque to rotate the cylinder and this means this prime-mover consumes some power/fuel.
By attaching a alternator, you demand more power from this prime-mover because load on the prime-mover is increased. You need more torque.
So you have to calculate whether the electricity generated is justified vis-a-vis to extra power consumed to generate it!!
Mizun ■
Re: Reuseful Energy
Thanks for your comments.But still i am not clear.
Of course you might be correct but i am not getting fully.
I will brief about my system.A big cylinder fitted with shaft (in central) and this rotates 500 rpm.Cotton is fed over one half quadrant in the outer periphery,my doubt is how power consumes? to rotate that much cylinder(wt 500kg) to overcome inertial resistance or to get over the cotton resistance (cotton is pass thro big cylinder and another rotary system) or to both.
To rotate this system one end is belt drive,other end is free, from this only i am going to use generator application
Also if we attach in coils over outer periphery of the central shaft one end, while rotating this shaft flux will not create? and cant the power will produce?cant it generate even 0.5kw?why the input load is increased?
If we consider motor rotor assumption is not correct?
Thanks
Prakash ■
Re: Reuseful Energy
Unless I am missing something, we may need to refer to this old favourite:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservationofenergy
"
In short, the law of conservation of energy states that energy can not be created or destroyed, it can only be changed from one form to another or transferred from one body to another, but the total amount of energy remains constant (the same).
"
You are putting energy / power into the system via the motor (drive), which is consumed by the machine due to both non steady state events (starting / intertia effects) and steady state events such as operation (running friction, work associated with the operation - doing stuff to cotton). The sum of the events exactly (including other losses - drive friction etc not mentioned here) equal the motor output.
If you whack on more load like a generator - you will pay for this at your drive motor.
I.e. the motor output will increase "proportionally" to the added load.
If you are somehow receiving the motor power for free there may be some justification for adding the load, if not, you are just paying for it indirectly (probably at a premium due to drive friction etc), rather than directly plugging the load into your power source.
Regards,
Lyle ■
Reply To Mr.lyle
Thanks to Mr.Lyle
I got understand your point.
But still one clarification:In our case huge 5ookg mass is rotating can we get any gain in energy(like flywheel effect).
From this i suspect to extract any energy out?
Prakash ■
Re: Reuseful Energy
What more clarification do you need? Lyle has made the point.
Unless your 500 kg cylinder is a perpetual motion machine; you cannot get any excess energy out.
Michael Reid. ■
Re: Reuseful Energy
Any machine has three conditions
1) starting
2) running normally
3) stopping
The information about the machine given so far is far to vague for any serious discussion. So in general:
STARTING, the motive power source must produce sufficient torque during acceleration to overcome any frictional resistance and inertia to bring the machine up to normal running speed.
RUNNING NORMALLY, the motive power source only provides the power to keep the machine running under normal operating conditions.
STOPPING, the motive power source is switched off and the machine slows down to a stop.
It is only during stopping phase that energy is available to be stored. Even then it depends on the speed and inertia of the machine and the number of stops per day if it is worthwhile considering this. On road transport it may be worthwhile but on an industrial machine it probably isn't. A proper analysis currently can't be done on the information available. ■
Conservation Of Energy
Hai Thanks for your comments.
I got understood we cannot conserve energy from our system.
Note:
(For your comment "A proper analysis currently can't be done on the information available"
Again brief our system,A big cylinder mass of 500kg is rotating to fulfill our function,To drive we have fitted with belt drive from main motor-one end and one end is free,From this free end why can t we generate power hence myself asked this querey,hope you clear)
Prakash ■
Re: Reuseful Energy
Mr.Prakash,
What is the KW of motor fixed to rotate your 500 kg cylinder?
Is your 500 kg cylinder running at your maximum desired capacity?
If so, what is the current reading it takes? What is the designed Full load current of this existing motor? Please note that during starting, that too with load on the machine, motor will require more current for initial few seconds.
If operating current of the machine at it's optimum load is much lower than the full load current allowable for the motor, you can replace the motor by a lower KW.
Then you will be saving power. ( Saving power is more or equally good than producing power. Will you agree? )
Am I making a point, useful to you ?
Please post your findings and action plan. ■
Re: Reuseful Energy
1) the reason that a proper analysis cannot be done is that the inertia (w*r^2, value kg m^2) of rotating drum and the drive motor is not given.
2) there's no point in attempting to drive a generator from the non-drive side of your drum during normal running as any power generated will be taken from the drive motor, and due to losses you'll have to put in more than you take out! ■
Re: Reuseful Energy
Designer sums it up. There is no point in continuing this thread!
Michael Reid. ■
Re: Reuseful Energy
Dear Mr.Designer/ Michel Reid,
Please go through my thread. I was not suggesting to provide a generator at free end, but only to check the current and go for a smaller motor to save the power.
Hope you will understand. ■
Re: Reuseful Energy
This is from the first post
Originally posted by Analysis
My curiosity is since cylinder is constantly rotating can we attach some dynamo accessories to generate power?
It's beyond doubt that that it was about generating power.
Still, I'm bored with thread!
Have a nice day ;-) ■
Conservation Of Energy
Originally posted by sganesh
Mr.Prakash,
What is the KW of motor fixed to rotate your 500 kg cylinder?
Is your 500 kg cylinder running at your maximum desired capacity?
If so, what is the current reading it takes? What is the designed Full load current of this existing motor? Please note that during starting, that too with load on the machine, motor will require more current for initial few seconds.
If operating current of the machine at it's optimum load is much lower than the full load current allowable for the motor, you can replace the motor by a lower KW.
Then you will be saving power. ( Saving power is more or equally good than producing power. Will you agree? )
Am I making a point, useful to you ?
Please post your findings and action plan.
Thanks Mr.Ganesh for your suggestion.
A main motor is centrally placed and drives not only this big cylinder.also drives some other elements.THis cylinder takes normal running condition power is 4kw since thought of conservation energy,we think it of placing otherside dynamo like to produce power.
Now i got understood that we cant produce the power.
Prakash ■
Reuseful energy
Dear all,
I have query regarding re useful energy from system.
Our system is big cylinder (1000mm x 1000mm width) having mass of 500kg is rotating 500rpm to do function.
My curiosity is since cylinder is constantly rotating can we attach some dynamo accessories to generate power?
Wheather attachment and generating power is possible?
Can it we significant magnitude ?
any case studies in this field ?sites?
Thanks,
Prakash ■