Legal Advice Invited

Roland Heilmann
(not verified)
Posted in: , on 13. Mar. 2014 - 08:32

Hello (australian) engineers with higher than usual exposure to safety relevant / cost intensive items

i do a job now for a client who specified NSWales law to be the legal base of contract. After conclusion of contract it became known, that due to this legal base the client wants to (and can?!) exercise personal liability over design staff of the company I'm employed with, "in case of". However, i personally have only a common employment contract NOT under NSWales law, and would not consider gross negligence an issue with my conduct in the future.

But: This is, in a probable future law suit, entirely up to the judge / court to be interpreted.

Could you, out there, please share some opinions or experiences? How do you treat this personally? Do you buy a personal legal expenses and / or professional liability covering insurance? Does your company does such a thing for you, if you are employed?

Thank you in advance,

regards

R.

Re: Legal Advice Invited

Posted on 13. Mar. 2014 - 11:33

If you are concerned, the first recommendation would be to seek professional advice.

The clause in principle is fairly standard (in AU), the first concern you apparently have is "Renvoi".

These may be of interest / use (there are probably more relevant etc examples out there for those in the know, unlike myself):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renvoi

http://www.mallesons.com/publication...s/8380523w.htm

http://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/cho...ent-and-13636/

http://archive.sclqld.org.au/qjudgme.../QSC13-332.pdf

Although that is the position, I would be interested in understanding how it would be enforced, as an example, ref: Ginsberg v Canadian Pacific Steamship Co Ltd (summary in the link provided above).

The second issue is apparently if you have appropriate insurance.

In AU I propose it would be fair to say the majority of employees would be "covered by their employer's policies", however this could be interpreted different ways (what happens if a case was served the day after you left your employer etc or your employer's insurer decided to do what is "best for the policy holder" - though may not be for you?).

Regards,

Lyle

Re: Legal Advice Invited

Posted on 14. Mar. 2014 - 11:55

Roland,

Your company's designs are supposed to be scrutinised by persons appointed by the Client. Such persons are independent Consultants or from the Client's own in-house authority. They, not you, not even your Company, assess the design and apply an appropriate verdict. Accordingly they assume responsibility. If the Client has not appointed scrutineers that is his own affair. Also, if the design has not been scrutinised within the time allowed you are entitled to proceed without further delay and the Client is liable in such case.

Don't concern yourself. Like Oscar Pistorius your Client won't have a leg to stand on in court. Then again it is Australia, where they used to walk on their heads when I was at school.

With you, and your employer, gross negligence is out of the question. Client may try to pull Due Diligence out of his bag of tricks but that is again the responsibility of the scrutineers. If the worst comes to the ridiculous and you get dragged into court just superimpose a picture of yourself alongside one of the Aussie politicians who is just leaving the Corruptions Commission Court and send it viral. No Oz court will want to hear about you. Case closed, No Worries. Ozzie democracy = Rule of the inmates by the inmates for the inmates.

John Gateley johngateley@hotmail.com www.the-credible-bulk.com

Re: Legal Advice Invited

Posted on 14. Mar. 2014 - 04:41

Dear Roland,

personal liability over design staff of the company is a very tricky subject.

I have been a project manager for approx. 30 years, building and maintaining pneumatic grain- and cement unloaders, high voltage power supplies and even 2 pusher/tug boats for which I made the designs, the construction and some commissions.

I am not of the scary type (I knew what I was doing), but the building- and operating crews were sometimes unpredictably dangerous.

I always was thinking: “hopefully nothing happens”, because of one moment of not paying attention can cause you a (and others) a lot of problems.

In case something happens, there is always a chance that someone holds you responsible, regardless the ruling laws. (do not forget labor safety laws)

Therefore, it is good to know your position within the company, you work for and whether they have insured you for liability, consequences and juridical costs.

If not, they should do so or compensate you for getting your own insurances.

Also, the company should refuse such liabilities in the contract (if this is possible under the ruling law).

If the law imposes personal liability, there should also an obligation to be insured.

In some countries, f.i. consequential damage is excluded from liabilities, bur not everywhere this is the case.

Another thing is that, if your job is so important that you can be sewed for mal performance, a salary increase is due.

I agree with Lyle:

If you are concerned, the first recommendation would be to seek professional advice.

Keep records of your activities for future evidence.

TAKE CARE

Teus

Roland Heilmann
(not verified)

Valuable Advice

Posted on 19. Mar. 2014 - 07:23

Dear Lyle, John, Teus, and Colin,

thank you very much for your shared thoughts and experiences. This gives me very much an insight into what has to be done and what has to be thought of by myself. And now I have a way to raise the issue in a way that can be understood by the superiors rather than me being perceived just as a scary boy.

Kind regards

Roland