Stacking rotary valves in series

cacing
(not verified)
Posted in: , on 20. Feb. 2006 - 02:15

I have a problem in designing a pneumatic conveying system for a fair distance. The material is dense(830 kg/ cu m), and the particle size is about 10mm or under. It is abrasive nature as well.

We calculated that we needed about 70 kPa of pressure at the pick up point, 25 m/s velocity to convey about 10 TPH of this material through a 6 inch pipeline.

The problem i was made to understand is, rotary air valves can't handle a pressure differential of more than 40-45 kPa. So we're thinking of stacking two of these together.

Can anyone tell me if this will work?

Re: Stacking Rotary Valves In Series

Posted on 20. Feb. 2006 - 10:47

Rotary valves are good for 1 bar or 100 kilopascals and are easily available in the market. So there is no need to stack 2 together.

Mantoo

Re: Stacking Rotary Valves In Series

Posted on 20. Feb. 2006 - 07:53

Rotary locks and pneumatic conveying !

Be very careful.

Conveying air can leak through the gap between the rotor and the housing.

(Air loss through the pockets cannot be prevented but can be calculated)

This can have 3 effects

1)In case of very abrasive material, very fast wearing out of the gap will uccur.

2)Leak air is taken from the conveying air, thereby influencing the pneumatic conveying.( leakage is pressure related)

3)If the leak air is also influencing the filling factor of the locks (volumetric efficiency), the pneumatic conveying can (and probably will) become unstable and starts oscillating.

In case you choose for a stack of 2 rotary locks in series, there has to be installed 2 spring relief valves with piping to control (or divide) the conveying pressure over the 2 locks.

The 2 rotary locks might have to be of different size, because of the different counter-air volumes.

The intermediate space has to be constructed for the conveying pressure, to be save.

Be certain to cover all possible consequences of such a design

successs

Teus

Re: Stacking Rotary Valves In Series

Posted on 20. Feb. 2006 - 10:20

Cacing

Just to elaborate on the replies from the others, rotary airlocks are available for differentials up to 3 bar but are application limited.

Proper airlock venting is ALWAYS a primary concern, regardless of whether you are using one or two airlocks.

If you do decide to use two, I would recommend that the top one be driven to provide the rate you want and the lower one should run at a slightly higher rpm to avoid any back up.

If you have the room, you can also use a lock hopper arrangement which allows the chamber above and below a single airlock to be equalized and therefore there is no differential of pressure across the airlock. This provides the continuous discharge of material without the leakage or airlock wear.

Regards

RPD - Invista (UK) Ltd., U.K.
(not verified)

Re: Stacking Rotary Valves In Series

Posted on 21. Feb. 2006 - 10:42

An abrasive material isn't an obvious candidate for a rotary velve fed pneumatic conveying system. Although "abrasive" is a relative term, if you are in the mineral industry or the food industry, it may mean very different things to you. A rotary valve with a pressure differential will wear more quickly than one without and the more abrasive a material is, the greater the rotor wear and seal problems you may face. Without knowing the material it is difficult to be more specific here.

The other problem is your particle size, 10 mm particles are occassionally going to get trapped between the rotor and housing. If they are friable they will be broken up by the valve(particle breakage may or may not be a problem to you?), if they aren't friable they are likely to damage the tips of the rotor. Jack's suggestion of one valve metering and one valve sealing against pressure will help with this (it underfills the pockets on the second rotor and reduces the chances of a pellet getting trapped) and there are also valves available (commonly used for handling plastic pellets) which have specially designed housings to reduce the number of pellets which can get trapped.

Re: Stacking Rotary Valves In Series

Posted on 21. Feb. 2006 - 12:47

Cacing

RPD makes a good point about product trapping or "clipping" as we call it. You can consider an inlet baffle or deflector plate which helps prevent this from occurring.

Rotating the lower airlock to an angle or using a "side entry" inlet are also solutions.

If you have the space to install to rotary units, you most likely have the space for a small lock hopper arrangement which may be a much better choice for your application of coarse and abrasive materials.

Regards

Dennis Hauch - Freeport, TX, USA
(not verified)

Rotary Valve Application

Posted on 21. Feb. 2006 - 05:40

Rotary valves are typically offered in three pressue ranges, i.e. 1.5 bar, 3.5 bar and 6.0 bar. At a 70 kPa operating differential the 1.5 bar valve will do nicely.

Reputable valve manufacturers will provide certified leakage characteristics for every valve sold. Also, designed-in anti-chopping features will both minimize wear to the valve and degradation of the product.

Based on the information that was provided for this application there is no reason under the sun to double-stack two rotary valves.

Dennis Hauch, PE

cacing
(not verified)

Thanks

Posted on 22. Feb. 2006 - 12:51

thanks guys for the input.

Rotary Valves In High Pressure Service

Posted on 23. Feb. 2006 - 06:45

Cacing,

I agree with Dennis. One other item that you need is a good venting system for rotary valves used in high pressure applications. Reason is that poorly vented rotary valves will interfere with material flow into the valve and reduce its capacity. Suggest that you read my article "Design of Venting Systems for Rotary Valves" published in the March 2005 issue of Chemical Engineering for the design of the venting system.

Regards,

Amrit T. Agarwal

Consulting Engineer

Pneumatic Conveying Consulting

Email: polypcc@aol.com

Ph and Fax: 304 346 5125

Re: Stacking Rotary Valves In Series

Posted on 26. Feb. 2006 - 09:06

Dear mr cacing

It took me a while, but now I think it will be very difficult to get 2 rotary valves in a stack working. (Actually I think it will not work)

There are 3 effects to consider:

1)Material flow. The lower rotary lock has to have a slightly higher capacity than the upper rotary lock to prevent the build up of material in the intermediate section.

2)Air leakage through the gaps. As the leaked air through the lower gap increases in volume (expands) in the intermediate section, the pressure drop over the upper rotary lock is higher than over the lower rotary lock (d(p) # v^2 )

3)The rotary lock pockets transport not only material from top to bottom, but also air from the convey air zone to the bin feeder zone. That air expands as well. To maintain a pressure in the intermediate zone of half the convey pressure, the volume of the upper rotary lock has to be p(conv)(abs):

2 x p(conv)

------------------- x lower rotary lock volume

2 x p(conv) +1

This is contradicting with consideration No 1)

Two equally sized rotary locks will end up with almost the conveying pressure in the intermediate section.

A simple solution as using 2 rotary valves to divide the pressure turns out to be rather complicated.

If you want the calculations, I can e-mail them to you.

Best regards

Teus

Re: Stacking Rotary Valves In Series

Posted on 26. Feb. 2006 - 10:30

dear members,

The formal in my preveous reply should read :

2 x p(conv)

------------------- x lower rotary lock volume

p(conv) +1

sorry for the inconveniance

Teus

Re: Stacking Rotary Valves In Series

Posted on 27. Feb. 2006 - 09:01

Originally posted by Mantoo

Rotary valves are good for 1 bar or 100 kilopascals and are easily available in the market. So there is no need to stack 2 together.

Agree

More, 1 more rotary valve dose not help to share the pressure drop because the below one will always take 3/4 of the differential pressure.

Am I right?

Shenjie Tel:+86(0)20 83553890,83550361 Fax: +86(0)20 83542314 [email]sj@chinabulk.com[/email] [url=http://www.chinabulk.com]Sino-Auto Technology[/url]

RPD - Invista (UK) Ltd., U.K.
(not verified)

Re: Stacking Rotary Valves In Series

Posted on 27. Feb. 2006 - 12:53

Stacking rotary valves certainly works !

It used to be common practice years ago in various sections of the plastics industry before the advent of the current 3.5 bar and now 6 bar valves. The conventional rule of thumb was to run the lower valve at least 10% faster than the lower one.

I have actually seen one system which had 3 valves in the stack, it worked but I never understood the need for the third valve !

It is still occassionally done on conveying systems which use inert gas for conveying, for safety reasons. If you have the possibility of a build up of inert leakage gas from the lower valve in an enclosed space, a bag emptying system for example, putting in a second valve may help. You vent the interspace to a safe area and keep the interspace pressure close to atmospheric, this can reduce the quantity of leakage to the de-bagging point and the asphyxiation risk.

Stack Of 2 Rotary Valves.

Posted on 27. Feb. 2006 - 05:30

The original question of this thread was how to divide the conveying pressure of 70 kPa over 2 rotary valves.

The answer is basically; It is not necessary to use 2 rotary valves, because 1 rotary valve is capable of taking 70 kPa (or more)

Then I tried to figure out : How is the pressure divided over the 2 rotary valves.

I came to the already mentioned conclusion.

It will not work, unless special (complicated) measures are taken. (Like controllable vent valves from the interspace to the atmosphere, to control the interspace pressure with varying convey pressures)

To shengie2004:

Which part of the conveying pressure will be taken by the lower rotary valve, is depending on the layout of the installation.

It might be even worse than of the conveying pressure.

To RPD :

Venting the interspace almost to atmospheric is not really a contribution to divide the conveying pressure 50% by 50% over the 2 rotary valves.

(Which was the intention)

In case you (or any member) wants to receive the mathematical derivation, please let me know.

All for now

Teus

Re: Stack Of 2 Rotary Valves.

Posted on 28. Feb. 2006 - 05:50

Dear Teus Tuinenburg,


Which part of the conveying pressure will be taken by the lower rotary valve, is depending on the layout of the installation.

It might be even worse than ?of the conveying pressure.

Sorry the upper one takes more pressure drop than the lower one:

KV1^2=DP1

KV2^2=1-DP1

V1(1+DP1)=V2*2

->DP1=0.609Bar

DP1: Pressure drop though upper valve

V1: Air flow rate through upper valve

V2: Air flow rate through lower valve

Shenjie Tel:+86(0)20 83553890,83550361 Fax: +86(0)20 83542314 [email]sj@chinabulk.com[/email] [url=http://www.chinabulk.com]Sino-Auto Technology[/url]

Re: Stacking Rotary Valves In Series

Posted on 28. Feb. 2006 - 06:32

Dear Shenjie,

I cannot figure out your equations.

V1(1+DP1) # V2^2

It seems that the dimensions of the left term do not correspond with the right term.

You also calculate DP1= 0.609 Bar, without knowing the conveying pressure.

Take care that V1 has a higher value than V2, depending on the conveying pressure and the interspace pressure.

Your equation seems to be based on flow resistance (f.i. through the gaps),

but, a rotary lock has also a positive displacement characteristic through the pockets

good luck

Teus

Re: Stacking Rotary Valves In Series

Posted on 3. Mar. 2006 - 03:11

Dear Teus,

I just make it simpler to be understanded by supposing the conveying pressure as 1.0Bar.

And for sure it is not calculated in my way. it is easier if we measure an existing process.

Thanks

Shenjie Tel:+86(0)20 83553890,83550361 Fax: +86(0)20 83542314 [email]sj@chinabulk.com[/email] [url=http://www.chinabulk.com]Sino-Auto Technology[/url]

Re: Stacking Rotary Valves In Series

Posted on 3. Mar. 2006 - 06:41

Dear Shenjie,

With a pneumatic conveying pressure of 1 bar(o) = 2 bar(abs),

I calculate, due to gap losses of 2 equal rotary valves:

pressure drop over upper valve = 0.5616 bar

pressure drop over lower valve = 0.4348 bar

conveyinpressure = 1 bar(o) underneath lower rotary valve

BUT,

There are 3 effects to consider:

1)Material flow. The lower rotary lock has to have a slightly higher capacity than the upper rotary lock to prevent the build up of material in the intermediate section.

2)Air leakage through the gaps. As the leaked air through the lower gap increases in volume (expands) in the intermediate section, the pressure drop over the upper rotary lock is higher than over the lower rotary lock (d(p) # v^2 )

3)The rotary lock pockets transport not only material from top to bottom, but also air from the convey air zone to the bin feeder zone. That air expands as well. To maintain a pressure in the intermediate zone of half the convey pressure, the volume of the upper rotary lock has to be p(conv)(abs):

2 x p(conv)

------------------- x lower rotary lock volume

p(conv) +1

This is contradicting with consideration No 1)

Two equally sized rotary locks will end up with almost the conveying pressure in the intermediate section.

Teus

Re: Stacking Rotary Valves In Series

Posted on 4. Mar. 2006 - 05:25

Originally posted by Teus Tuinenburg

Dear Shenjie,

With a pneumatic conveying pressure of 1 bar(o) = 2 bar(abs),

I calculate, due to gap losses of 2 equal rotary valves:

pressure drop over upper valve = 0.5616 bar

pressure drop over lower valve = 0.4348 bar

conveyinpressure = 1 bar(o) underneath lower rotary valve

BUT,

There are 3 effects to consider:

1)Material flow. The lower rotary lock has to have a slightly higher capacity than the upper rotary lock to prevent the build up of material in the intermediate section.

2)Air leakage through the gaps. As the leaked air through the lower gap increases in volume (expands) in the intermediate section, the pressure drop over the upper rotary lock is higher than over the lower rotary lock (d(p) # v^2 )

3)The rotary lock pockets transport not only material from top to bottom, but also air from the convey air zone to the bin feeder zone. That air expands as well. To maintain a pressure in the intermediate zone of half the convey pressure, the volume of the upper rotary lock has to be p(conv)(abs):

2 x p(conv)

------------------- x lower rotary lock volume

p(conv) +1

This is contradicting with consideration No 1)

Two equally sized rotary locks will end up with almost the conveying pressure in the intermediate section.

You Win!!

Shenjie Tel:+86(0)20 83553890,83550361 Fax: +86(0)20 83542314 [email]sj@chinabulk.com[/email] [url=http://www.chinabulk.com]Sino-Auto Technology[/url]

Re: Stacking Rotary Valves In Series

Posted on 4. Mar. 2006 - 06:50

dear Shenjie,

It is not a matter of winning, but agreeing.

makes the world much easier

best luck

Teus

cacing
(not verified)

Re: Stacking Rotary Valves In Series

Posted on 8. Mar. 2006 - 01:58

teus,

I would like to the mathematical derivations relating to the rotary valves you mentioned.

Re: Stacking Rotary Valves In Series

Posted on 8. Mar. 2006 - 08:05

dear cacing,

let me know your e-mail address.

Then I can send you the word document

"stack of 2 rotary valves.doc"

hear from you

Teus

cacing
(not verified)

Re: Stacking Rotary Valves In Series

Posted on 8. Mar. 2006 - 11:42

Re: Stacking Rotary Valves In Series

Posted on 9. Mar. 2006 - 03:39

Dear Sea-will

Can you send me a copy of picture?

thanks

Shenjie Tel:+86(0)20 83553890,83550361 Fax: +86(0)20 83542314 [email]sj@chinabulk.com[/email] [url=http://www.chinabulk.com]Sino-Auto Technology[/url]

cacing
(not verified)

Re: Stacking Rotary Valves In Series

Posted on 9. Mar. 2006 - 04:39

sea-will,

i can't see anything of the picture... seems like the file is corrupted or something.