Re: Gearboxes With Integrated Clutch
This won't really answer your question, though from my understanding of your description, this may have been done before:
Is it a CST?
http://www.baldor.com.au/productview.php?PRODID=136
Or (doesn't really match your description) Boss?
http://www.saimh.co.za/beltcon/beltcon12/paper1212.htm
Regards,
Lyle ■
Definite First
Dear Lyle,
it`s primarily the friction principle of the clutch that concerns me so much.
I cannot yet see, where it has been done before, as for me it's a definite first.
However, in the current situation, i cannot use the given contacts.
Thank you!
Regards
R.
P.S.: I swept my original post free from the "other" concerns i have, leaving only the straightforward technical points. ■
Re: Gearboxes With Integrated Clutch
Dear Roland,
Marine reverse/reduction gearboxes have 2 integral hydraulically operated friction clutches.
They are mostly used between a combustion engine and rotating equipment.
(f.i. a diesel engine in a ship and the propulsion propeller)
From your description, I understand that it this principle that you are referring to.
Applying a standard marine reverse reduction gear of the shelf is in many cases a good and cost effective choice. ( I have experience with standard marine gears where a diesel engine drives a screw compressor).
The supplier can advise about ramping, inertia, etc.
The application in the marine sector has proven that this machinery can be very reliable over long periods of time and under severe conditions.
Obviously, the gearboxes have to be equipped with proper coolers and filters.
In nowadays ship propulsions, when not a diesel direct drive, the reverse/reduction gearbox is often replaced by electric drives.
All other aspects, s.a. “what happens when the installation stalls”, etc. have to be judged also.
Enter the meeting with your potential supplier with an open mind and let him convince you. (Or not)
Take care
Teus ■
Teus
One Step At A Time
Dear Teus,
thank you very much for your good advice. And, yes, i can take now some other angle on the matter if i ask where the idea came from, whether it's perhaps proriatary to other sources and i shall surely have a good look on the lubrication / cooling / filtration system.
In order to add: In a rather high percentage my applications run in temperature conditions spanning from frost (deep) to heat (quite high) --> oil viscosity etc.
Then furthermore: Holding torque (with a safety factor requirement) often exceeds operational brake torques (if any). Then the integration of a friction clutch must be duly investigated. Even with a fluid coupling the brake is on the gearbox side coupling half, but still on highspeed side which is often preferred.
On another plane of action / thinking:
Especially thank you for the advice to be careful. I shall do that. If i may allow myself to say, i didn't get informative data / documents from that supplier, even if i requested that in due time and very kindly and the commodities to be offered got a high ranking on the CAPEX side. So, the potential supplier decided to take the reins and define the agenda. It is a very valuable asset to keep an open mind under all conditions.
Best regards
R. ■
Clutches In Reducers
Besides the CST, there have been, over the years, other attempts at the clutch idea. Most travel the wet clutch of CST. Some use dry clutches such as with Wichita Clutch, Eaton, ... that can combine clutch and reducer by separation on the high speed shaft between reducer and motor. Other wet cluthes included Force Control, Phildelphia Gear, and others I am too lazy to fetch. Most of these use a quill system to align the driver and driven assemblies. I'll bet there are a number of Chinese attempts and maybe successes. The biggest drawback is heat and wear. There is no answer for it that I know of. ■
Next Step
Dear Mr. Nordell,
thank you for your time. These hints support the idea to require a maintenance handbook / document and a specific OPEX forecast. The question of the alignment shall be raised, heat & wear bear the red flag too. Thank you also for mentioning the quill alignment system, i shall inquire about that as i did not yet know about it. Standard solution for belt drive around here is the "overhung" drive unit on base frame, with torque support. Fixed supports for drives i have met in my former life (design engineer), but only at crane hoisting gear and boom lift gear.
Best regards
R. ■
Ok And Over
Thank you all once more, the meeting's over now and sucessfully so. All points concerning the advantages, application requirements and challenges of said solution could be properly addressed and discussed. And as a bonus, I've met a pleasant and competent contact person.
Best regards
R. ■
Gearboxes with Integrated Clutch
Dear forum members and readers,
in the next days i shall meet a potential supplier offering a specific execution of belt conveyor drive gearboxes. The base principle is the integration of a friction clutch into a conventional gearbox.
Here my requests to the forum:
- a friction clutch, integrated into a running gear, must produce wear particles which are necessarily leading to wear! Is that not something of a no go with required lifecycles of 15 to 20 years?
- from same point of view: Must not the oil supply-cooling and filtration system be extensively sized and be of crucial importance to the overall system? So to speak, a minor matter here would lead to a big issue there?
- What about reliability, maintenance aspect (filtration)?
- the clutch is not to be seen / maintained from the outside, being clearly (in my eyes) a wear part of first priority to system functionality. How to address that issue, is that acceptable at all?
If the knowledgeable forum membes could please give me their opinions about above points, perhaps adding some other angles or even give me some operational insight from practical experience?
Thank you in advance,
with my best regards
R. ■