For the hose I would look at Trellex slurry hose (see attached)

With the impeller talk to your pump manufacturer and tell them you are not satisfied with the performance and ask them to recommend the proper material for the impeller.

In salt slurry we use monel impellers but I would think monel would be much too soft for ore slurry.

Attachments

2382-trellex_hosesystem_en (PDF)

■

To determine the source of your problem more information is required:

Carry Fluid

Type

Temperature

Solids

Weight Conc. ( Cw )Particle Size ( d50 )

Volume Conc. ( Cv )Particle Size ( d85 )

Fluid S.G. ( Sf )Particle Size ( dmax )

Solid S.G. ( Ss )

Pump Feed Box and pipe

The pump feed box details are important to determine if the pump is getting the feed it needs. I will need details of the feed box level, and whether it fluctuates during operation or not. The pipe from the feed box is also important; what size, length and valves, etc are on the feed pipe.

Pump

What is the make, model and size of the pump. What elevation is this system operating at?

Discharge Pipeline

I will need the configuration of the system; a drawing is best with a plan view and two orthogonal elevations. If a drawing is not available, details of the system that explain the routing of the pipeline.

Discharge conditions

Does the system discharge to open air or is it submerged? Is there a pressure on the discharge?

In short, this is a system and all details of the system are required to select the right pump and pipeline to maximize its performance and wear life.

I am available as a consultant to help you solve your problem. You can email me at softedge88@gmail.com if you would like to pursue this further. ■

mohandes

based on the information given, you are running at closer to 6m/s than 5m/s. also by the picture, the hose is corrugated on the outside. Is it smooth on the inside, or also corrugated? my assessment does not give me the 7-8 bar pressure you indicate. however, i am working with very incomplete information. again all of the information i stated earlier is required to get your system performing with optimal results. also, you can email me directly and we can discuss further.

softedge ■

mohandes,

the inside of the pipe appears to be smooth at a 1mm scale, however at a 100mm scale it is quite rough. The small ribs you see on the inside of the pipe will cause turbulence that will help with carry velocity ( you might be able to transport with a slightly slower velocity because of the additional turbulence) but it will also increase you friction head and could be why you are seeing 7 to 8 bar in this pipeline. There are types of rubber hose available that have an inside profile and smoothness similar to HDPE, i.e. very smooth.

with a smooth pipe and a 15psi cyclone header pressure, I calculate a 3 bar pressure loss over the 100m, i.e. the friction head is 2 bar. you will have to add any elevation head to this figure to get the total head at the pump. the difference is in the pipe selected for the application.

there are other possible solutions to your problem, but much more information, as I originally posted will be required.

softedge ■

if the elbow is a vertical elbow then the required carry velocities will be higher by up to 50%. the pressures may be developing because of restrictions in the elbow and thus the high pressures. there are solutions to your problem. the wear pattern you are seeing is a sliding bed wear pattern. ■

let me caution you further though, your velocities are already high, so increasing them will only aggravate your problem. ■

mohandes

many of the breaks are on elbows, but you are also getting breaks at or near flanges and on straight lengths of pipe. i would expect to see more breaks in elbows than elsewhere. a couple of questions; are both pumps running at the same time or is one a backup? why does the pipe size change from 8" to 10" at the laterals and off the pump? is the hose a constant diameter along its length, or does it reduce slightly at the flanges?

i also looked at your pipe spec. it appears to have solid additives in the rubber. pure natural rubber provides the best wear in the particle sizes you are pumping. additives tend to harden rubber and the solid to rubber boundary tends to be a weak point in the material. impingement of particles on the hose will cause the rubber to fail at the solid to rubber boundary. the rubber is usually more brittle and does not flex without creating micro-fractures in the rubber material and results in wear.

if you have chemicals that will attack natural rubber then the above is negated, except that solid additives to any rubber can lead to shorter wear life. have you looked at rubber lined steel pipe for your application?

softedge ■

Originally Posted by mohandes

Dear Gary,

Although we have used Trellex, the problem has not solved!

Dear softedge,

carry fluid: water

temperature: ambient min.-10 deg.C, max.+40 deg.C

solid: iron ore

particle size distribution:

max. particle size=6mm

d50=0.5-1mm

d80=1.8-2

hose pipe diameter: ID=200mm (8 inch)

velocity: about 5m/s

discharge condition: to hydrocyclone

pump: centrifugal pump

pump feed box: sump under wet vibratory screen

You are using a flexible pipe for connecting Pump Outlet to Hydrocyclone inlet. Can you not use HDPE pipe instead? HDPE pipes with good size bends would be suitable for this application. Velovity in 200 mm pipeline is also 5 m/sec. This is high. ■

Originally Posted by mohandes

what is your email address?

The velocity is too high. If you can reduce it by increasing pipe diameter - You will reduce power as well as wear on pipe. On similar application (pumping from Mill discharge sump to Hydrocyclone inlet) HDPE pipes have lasted for years (with lower velocity in the pipe line). ■

mohandes

i think hdpe was mentioned in an earlier post. i think your reaction then was warranted. you have a somewhat different slurry to a normal mill discharge in that there are no fines in your slurry. this lack of fines will impact your carry velocity and the wear in the pipe. normally hdpe does not wear as well as rubber; this does however depend on the rubber compound. an earlier post for a ceramic? lined pipe may give you better performance, however, this pipe will be very expensive and may not be necessary. i don't know if i would go that route as a first option. if other materials or methods don't work, then by all means.

softedge ■

Originally Posted by softedge

mohandes

i think hdpe was mentioned in an earlier post. i think your reaction then was warranted. you have a somewhat different slurry to a normal mill discharge in that there are no fines in your slurry. this lack of fines will impact your carry velocity and the wear in the pipe. normally hdpe does not wear as well as rubber; this does however depend on the rubber compound. an earlier post for a ceramic? lined pipe may give you better performance, however, this pipe will be very expensive and may not be necessary. i don't know if i would go that route as a first option. if other materials or methods don't work, then by all means.

softedge

Sir,

HDPE pipes were used from pump sump at primary ball mill ball mill discharge in an iron ore beneficiation plant. The Ball mill was for coarse grinding of (-)25 mm iron ore to (-) 1 mm size (nominal).

The pumps pumped about 450m3 of slurry (with water added to ball mill discharge) to battery of cyclones use for desliming. This installation was dome in Goa in 1980. Basic engineering was by Lurgi, my group was responsible for detail engineering and procurement. HDPE lines with smooth bends (of appropriate D/d ratio were used for slurry from ground level to cyclone batteries mounted at 15.6 m level.

Iron ore is hematite with a small percentage of FeO and SiO2 and Al2O3 as main impurities. I may be able to give more information if you email me your query. ■

Vinayak,

i do not question the application of hdpe in slurry transport. it is used with great success in mines all over the world. my point is that in my experience and the experience of others, that it does not compare in wear life to natural rubber. now this is very dependent on particle size, shape, sharpness, gradation, specific gravity, slurry Cw, pipe size, velocity, pipe orientation among others. you used it with success with a particle size up to 25mm. my experience shows that natural rubber lined pipe would have given you better wear life. now not all rubber is equal. different manufacturers and applicators of rubber have different levels of success. it may be possible that the manufacturers and applicators in your area do not provide the same quality that we get here. even different applicators here have a varied degree of success.

in trying to help mohandes who is having a rather difficult problem with his slurry transport, i would not recommend hdpe. now i think mohandes has more than a pipeline problem, he has a system problem that requires a total solution.

softedge ■

Originally Posted by mohandes

Vinayak,

1- attached from SlurrySystemsHandbook maybe useful which mentioned HDPE wear

2- what was the percentage of iron ore solid in your experience?

Sir Velocities in your system are very high. ■

mohandes

your reference is in keeping with my knowledge and experience. as previously mentioned, i think you have more than a pipeline problem. indications are that all components in your system are contributing to the poor wear and performance. the system as a whole should be re-assessed to determine the best components and operating conditions. i have seen similar problems at other mines where they have changed the pipes, pumps and pump speeds without success. only after assessing the entire system and configuring all components to match the demands of the system was success achieved. feed boxes, pumps and pipelines do not exist in isolation of each other, they operate as a system, and the solution involves the entire system. hydraulic systems are sensitive to changes; hydraulic slurry systems are the most sensitive of all due to solids settling velocities and the aggresiveness of slurries.

softedge ■

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Originally Posted by mohandes

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Originally Posted by mohandes

slurry with under 6mm particle wearness

Dears

we have used centrifugal pump to transfer slurry in 100 meter hose pipe line. However because of high amount of wear in pump and hose pipe, we worry if there is similar experience in other plants or not:

1-material: iron ore

2- solid percent: 43%

3-max. particle size: 6mm

4-pressure:7-8bar

5-flow: 430t/h solid+water 579 m3/h

6-changing impeller after 400 hours!

7-breaking hose pipe every week!

would you please inform me if you have similar experience and how we can solve the problem.

sdafadfasdfsadgafdgdfgfreXihua Industrial Material Co.,ltd ,which produce fused cast basalt cylinder or tiles for cement industry or coal fire power plant and other abrasion and wear resistance industry ;

We Xihua fused cast basalt Factory, which is the first factory which produce fused cast basalt - abrasion and wear resistance material In China;Through more than 50 years history, we have covered 70% cast fused cast basalt abrasion and wear resistance material market in China by our high quality and the competitive price ;

Now we are developing more markets all over the world.

We know your company are very famous company which sell the cast basalt material ; So we hope we could have chance to cooperate with you to deal with fused cast basalt cylinder or tiles ;

I hope we could have chance to supply our high quality and competitive price material for your company, we also welcome you to our factory ; If you have any comment, you could contact with us , we will deal with that for you asap;

Looking forward to getting your reply ;

--

Xihua Industrial Material Co.,Ld

Director: Figo han

Personal Email: figohan666@gmail.com

Website: www.dlxihua.com

Skype:figo-han

Fax /Tel: 0086-411-66883121

Mobile numnber: 0086-15942890952 ■

Originally Posted by mohandes

slurry with under 6mm particle wearness

Dears

we have used centrifugal pump to transfer slurry in 100 meter hose pipe line. However because of high amount of wear in pump and hose pipe, we worry if there is similar experience in other plants or not:

1-material: iron ore

2- solid percent: 43%

3-max. particle size: 6mm

4-pressure:7-8bar

5-flow: 430t/h solid+water 579 m3/h

6-changing impeller after 400 hours!

7-breaking hose pipe every week!

would you please inform me if you have similar experience and how we can solve the problem.

Xihua Industrial Material Co.,ltd ,which produce fused cast basalt cylinder or tiles for cement industry or coal fire power plant and other abrasion and wear resistance industry ;

We Xihua fused cast basalt Factory, which is the first factory which produce fused cast basalt - abrasion and wear resistance material In China;Through more than 50 years history, we have covered 70% cast fused cast basalt abrasion and wear resistance material market in China by our high quality and the competitive price ;

Now we are developing more markets all over the world.

We know your company are very famous company which sell the cast basalt material ; So we hope we could have chance to cooperate with you to deal with fused cast basalt cylinder or tiles ;

I hope we could have chance to supply our high quality and competitive price material for your company, we also welcome you to our factory ; If you have any comment, you could contact with us , we will deal with that for you asap;

Looking forward to getting your reply ;

--

Xihua Industrial Material Co.,Ld

Director: Figo han

Personal Email: figohan666@gmail.com

Website: www.dlxihua.com

Skype:figo-han

Fax /Tel: 0086-411-66883121

Mobile numnber: 0086-15942890952 ■

Originally Posted by mohandes

slurry with under 6mm particle wearness

Dears

we have used centrifugal pump to transfer slurry in 100 meter hose pipe line. However because of high amount of wear in pump and hose pipe, we worry if there is similar experience in other plants or not:

1-material: iron ore

2- solid percent: 43%

3-max. particle size: 6mm

4-pressure:7-8bar

5-flow: 430t/h solid+water 579 m3/h

6-changing impeller after 400 hours!

7-breaking hose pipe every week!

would you please inform me if you have similar experience and how we can solve the problem.

We would like to cooperate with you ■

Originally Posted by mohandes

slurry with under 6mm particle wearness

Dears

we have used centrifugal pump to transfer slurry in 100 meter hose pipe line. However because of high amount of wear in pump and hose pipe, we worry if there is similar experience in other plants or not:

1-material: iron ore

2- solid percent: 43%

3-max. particle size: 6mm

4-pressure:7-8bar

5-flow: 430t/h solid+water 579 m3/h

6-changing impeller after 400 hours!

7-breaking hose pipe every week!

would you please inform me if you have similar experience and how we can solve the problem.

Please feel free to contact us if you need abrasion-resistant valves.Our ceramic lined valve is very excellent to solve abrasion and wear problem for slurry,sand,dust,powder and ect.the service life can last times longer than metal valves. ■

Originally Posted by mohandes

slurry with under 6mm particle wearness

Dears

we have used centrifugal pump to transfer slurry in 100 meter hose pipe line. However because of high amount of wear in pump and hose pipe, we worry if there is similar experience in other plants or not:

1-material: iron ore

2- solid percent: 43%

3-max. particle size: 6mm

4-pressure:7-8bar

5-flow: 430t/h solid+water 579 m3/h

6-changing impeller after 400 hours!

7-breaking hose pipe every week!

would you please inform me if you have similar experience and how we can solve the problem.

===========================================================================================

A couple of issues come to mind being elbows, resistance and pump type.

Have you examined using the yellomine plastic pipe from certainteed pipe products?

it is highly resistant to wear and long lived piping that comes in various sizes and with

many many fittings and adapters.

The yellow mine pipe and fittings are easy to connect and disassemble with simple hand tools.

You can also make your own pipe fitting connections with manual or electric grooving tools for

the plastic pipes.

Any elbow or curves in piping are deadly for slurry's with high wear potential

due to settling.

I have to ask, you have examined the use of double diaphram pumps to pump

you slurry at a slower speed?

The other issue is using pipeline pigs, pig balls to clear the piping of the sediment

Using pipeline pigs or pig balls is a very common way to flush lines of debris and sediment.

www.certainteed.com for yellow mine pipe.

www.victaulic.com for victaulic pipe and pipe fittings that are easy assemble and only require hand tools.

www.sandpiperpump.com for air operated double diaphram pumps

www.pipepigs.com pipeline pig manufacturer

I would contact the regional distributor for for these items in your part of Asia for more information or request information

from the american sales offices





1

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ■

Has there been any improvement in pump life?

Did you manage to get any feedback from similar plant operations?

Was the projected life of the plant worth the cost of change to basalt linings etc? ■

Pigs are indeed widely used to clean pipes. However on the other side of the water from you the name causes offence and there is a name change implemented by US interests. I don't know the Israeli name, they used to call pork 'white streak'. I just assumed that many in your part of the world would have adopted a description which pandered to extremists. It is most pleasing that a pig can still be given its correct title in Persia. Can a positive deflection in a beam still be described as hogging?

Getting away from the lighter side...I have never seen proposals for 6mm infeed but then I have only been reviewing contractors who were shifting waste after the mill. Those flashy, rather pointless, high pressure grinding rolls (have they got them working properly yet?) used to require -3 feed.

Now to get back to the lighter side....the largest users/suppliers of pipe cleaning pigs are American so why aren't they calling them hogs?? Given half a chance they usually rename anything. ■

Could you handle to pump it succesfully? I have a similar sludge to pump in our new project. ■

Originally Posted by yzaydn

Could you handle to pump it succesfully? I have a similar sludge to pump in our new project.

yzaydn,

even though your slurry is similar, even small changes in gradation and concentration can result in significant differences in recommended transport velocities that in turn require different pump and pipe sizes. can you provide us with the material gradation, and slurry properties with flow requirements? ■

Originally Posted by mohandes

slurry with under 6mm particle wearness

Dears

we have used centrifugal pump to transfer slurry in 100 meter hose pipe line. However because of high amount of wear in pump and hose pipe, we worry if there is similar experience in other plants or not:

1-material: iron ore

2- solid percent: 43%

3-max. particle size: 6mm

4-pressure:7-8bar

5-flow: 430t/h solid+water 579 m3/h

6-changing impeller after 400 hours!

7-breaking hose pipe every week!

would you please inform me if you have similar experience and how we can solve the problem.

For the pipe line,we suggest to you use ceramic lined pipe,the ceramic material liner usually alumina ceramic which with a very high hardness level.http://www.fuvalve.com/56-ceramic-li...e-and-fittings ■

what sizes and types of pump and pipe are you using on this system? i ran some rough numbers based on the limited info you provided. please understand that slurry systems must be looked at as a whole when changing anything. changing any individual part affects all other parts of the system. those affects may be good or bad, so the entire system should be evaluated to determine if the change is beneficial and whether it should be adopted.

Originally Posted by Carlo

For the pipe line,we suggest to you use ceramic lined pipe,the ceramic material liner usually alumina ceramic which with a very high hardness level.http://www.fuvalve.com/56-ceramic-li...e-and-fittings

■

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