Cracks Developing Across the Belt Width

Posted in: , on 3. Aug. 2008 - 15:25

Fabric belts characterics (adhesion test between plies and covers, wear resistant test, belt rating, rubber tesnsile strenth etc ) are tested only at the end of the belt roll by the belt manufacturers.

Can we conclude that entire belt characters will be as that of it's end ?

Is there any non-destructive tests available to test the entire length of the belt?

Regards,

Cracks Developing Across The Width

Posted on 3. Aug. 2008 - 01:39

Please refer the attached file in which photos are taken for the damaged portions. Belt is developing cracks from inside.

This conveyor is 800 mm width x EP 800/4 , 9/3 , M24 and in operation since Oct 2006.

The internal plies may be the cause of problem.

I need further understanding on this. What could be the manufacturing or maintenance or design fault ?

Kindly help.

Cracks On The Belt. Photos Attached

Posted on 3. Aug. 2008 - 01:43

Please refer the attached file in which photos are taken for the damaged portions. Belt is developing cracks from inside.

This conveyor is 800 mm width x EP 800/4 , 9/3 , M24 and in operation since Oct 2006.

The internal plies may be the cause of problem.

I need further understanding on this. What could be the manufacturing or maintenance or design fault ?

Kindly help.

Attachments

cut across the width (PDF)

Re: Cracks Developing Across The Belt Width

Posted on 6. Aug. 2008 - 08:43

Have you checked the whole conveyor system particularly in return side and impact area condition?

Rgds,

Endri

Re: Cracks Developing Across The Belt Width

Posted on 6. Aug. 2008 - 09:14

Dear Mr.Endri,

We are having many fabric conveyors. There is no abnormal found in this conveyor at these places you mentioned. Should I check any thing particular ?

Regards,

S.Ganesh

Re: Cracks Developing Across The Belt Width

Posted on 7. Aug. 2008 - 10:49

The photographs are interesting indeed.

They would suggest that the belt was reeved on the ground. This could typically happen if the belt was removed from the conveyor for some reason when a reel was not available or there was no device available for reeving and then re-installed.

This is possible on second hand belting or factory rejects that have found their way back into the market. The later is a distinct possibility since the manufacturers stamps appear to have been removed and replaced with inserts.

Engicon specialises in correcting non-performing plants and low cost de-bottlenecking of systems.

Re: Cracks Developing Across The Belt Width

Posted on 10. Aug. 2008 - 01:53

Dear sganesh,

The photos show the pulleys are too small a diameter for the number of plies/cover thicknesses and also appear to be over-tensioned.

It would appear that somewhere the belt is being stressed around too tight a radius bend which is de-laminating the belt and cracking the top cover crosswidth wise. This does not look like impact damage. It could be the belt was old prior to being fitted and has hardened above the Shore grading, or it may be the incorrect belt (chemical composition) was supplied.

Check your pulleys for diameter. the smallest diameter pulley should be at least 850mm @80% tension for this belt type. Please check with your belt supplier for the correct diameters and please give ALL the parameters of the conveyor as they can do a realistic analysis and make a detailed comment for you.

Mechanical Doctor There is No such thing as a PROBLEM, just an ISSUE requiring a SOLUTION email:- [email]tecmate@bigpond.com[/email] Patented conveyor Products DunnEasy Idler Assembly & Onefits conveyor Idler Roll [WINNER] Australian Broadcasters Corporation's TV 'The New Inventors' Episode 25 - 27th July 2011 [url]http://www.abc.net.au/tv/newinventors/txt/s3275906.htm[/url]
Ray Latchford
(not verified)

Re: Cracks Developing Across The Belt Width

Posted on 11. Aug. 2008 - 03:09

Dear sganesh,

Does this problem occur at regular intervals along the belt, for example every 10 metres or some similar interval?

cheers,

Ray L

Re: Cracks Developing Across The Belt Width

Posted on 12. Aug. 2008 - 05:34

Dear sganesh,

Looks like the belt was pulled a little too far on the press in the factory after vulcanising and before the next pressing.

This gives a very short section (which ends up as a line across the belt) where it is not properly vulcanised and gives failure as per your photographs.

Regards

LSL Tekpro

Graham Spriggs
Ray Latchford
(not verified)

Re: Cracks Developing Across The Belt Width

Posted on 13. Aug. 2008 - 01:14

Dear Graham,

That's my thought also - hence my question above on the spacing of the "marks" - it looks very much like a press "cold-end" issue.

I've seen similar markings before, from trying to get that little bit extra from each press cure.

Close examination could show some porosity in the rubber where the marks are, but if it occurs at each press length, that would seal it.

cheers,

Ray Latchford

Re: Cracks Developing Across The Belt Width

Posted on 8. Oct. 2008 - 12:09

I tend to agree with some of the responses. Could be a pulley issue. Find that sometimes OEMs, best designs are trumped by budget restraints, therefore going small on the pulleys. Also could be a cold zone area as previosly noted. However this is usually repaired prior to leaving the factory.

There are non destructive testing for entire length of belt, but is costly & time consuming with X-Ray.

Buddy Wilson General Manager - WV/VA Operations Fenner Dunlop ECS

Fabric Belts Inspection For Full Length

Posted on 8. Oct. 2008 - 07:06

As this belt is developing damages at many places, I should agree that this may be due to manufacturing problem ( Cold-end process ).

I read that ND test ( Non-desrtuctive tests ) like X-rays are available for steel cord belts.

Do we have for fabrics also?

How to ensure that the counter weight provided is correct , not over-weight or under-weight ? Should I assume that as that as long as belt is not slipping, it is not under weight?

Is there any scientific method to judge, say by measuring the sagness between the return rollers just before the tail pulley?

Re: Cracks Developing Across The Belt Width

Posted on 8. Oct. 2008 - 10:03

Taking a second look at the photographs (I did not scroll down last time) I need to add to the conclusion previously drawn.

You would get similar damage if a nip angle when round a pulley however in most cases the nip angle creates a spiral on the pulley and diagonal damage on the belt. This rules out the nip angle but does suggest that the belt was folded or incorrectly clamped on the first example 5F 1.55.

The second example appears to be a factory splice where the calendaring has not been completed correctly. Factory splices have no external distinguishing marks.

Engicon specialises in correcting non-performing plants and low cost de-bottlenecking of systems.

Re: Cracks Developing Across The Belt Width

Posted on 25. Oct. 2008 - 05:48

Please find the photos taken when the repairing was done. the photos are for yyour technical interest and comments please.

We could find some patches are made between the plies while manufacturing.

Is there any way to detect these types of mistakes while inspecting the conveyors prior to dispatch? After some time in service , these types of problems are bursting out.

Attachments

picture5 (JPG)

Re: Cracks Developing Across The Belt Width

Posted on 26. Oct. 2008 - 07:18

The only way to know for sure is X-ray of entire belt. The right service or equipment can detect as much as a finger print inside a belt. This is time consuming & expensive. What I see is similar to the prior comment, a fabric splice in the calendaring process. Hard to detect unless is breaks loose. The widthwise crack shows up when the fabric splice comes loose/fails. Saw it at a steel mill before. they wanted to know why it wasn't detected previosly and called it a factory splice. Well, these are not easily detected untill the failure ocurs. Then you go back to the manufacturer.

Buddy Wilson General Manager - WV/VA Operations Fenner Dunlop ECS

Re: Cracks Developing Across The Belt Width

Posted on 12. Dec. 2012 - 07:28

Dear all,

Please find a peculiar breakdown happened last week. An another conveyor belt had internal air pockets between the plies and had across cut ( Please refer photo : Airgap between plies.jpg ) and started getting torn out across it's length for 150 meters approximately. The torn out part wound around the drive pulley ( Please refer photo : Belt wound around drive pulley.jpg ). The increasing of drive pulley made in contact with it's snub pulley. The snub pulley plummer blocks broke and pulley fell down.

How to avoid belts forming air pockets between its plies ? If this is a manufacturing problem , how to detect this , during inspection ? Does X-Ray detect the manufacturing mistakes of fabric belts also? We do carry out X-Ray. But very rarely, only for steel cord belts joints.

Thanks a lot & Regards to all,

Attachments

airgap between plies (JPG)

belt wound around drive pulley (JPG)

Ply Separation

Posted on 13. Dec. 2012 - 08:05

Dear Sganesh,

Ply separation originates from poor quality control during manufacture. This can be due to delinquent manufacturers or night shift manufacture where a hot chocolate and warm bench replace the overseeing of manufacture. Once the belt is rolled the only chance to detect such a problem is when it is being pulled onto the conveyor but that is extremely unlikely. The defect usually only makes itself known when combined with poor conveyor design or poor installation. It shows up when convex radii is too tight, transitions are incorrect or more often when the conveyor comprises of a mixture of inline and off set idlers e.g. at a mass meter. That said the separation can be noticed days or weeks before catastrophic failure. So who is to blame for your problem? Well I'm afraid just about everyone is from the manufacturer to the belts man responsible for maintaining the conveyor.

Engicon specialises in correcting non-performing plants and low cost de-bottlenecking of systems.

Re: Cracks Developing Across The Belt Width

Posted on 13. Dec. 2012 - 11:21

Dear Mr.Dave Morgan,

The conveyor met with above breakdown has endless length of approximately 1000 meters. But the ply separation was about for 200 meters. Hence I narrow down the cause to the manufacturing problem. Otherwise such problem would have occurred to the full length of the belt.

Unlike many other utilities like pumps, or compressors, many conveyors may not have alternate route to save the plant. Hence they invite for major decision to stop the plant.

We do not have any scientific measurements for such belt related problems. For many other equipments, we have certain indications like temperature of high speed bearings, Vibrations of drives, thickness of pipes etc., They can guide us to take better decisions to run the equipment or not.

But to run a conveyor having problems or to stop the plant, is left to the individual's experience and gut feelings, who is authorized to do so.

The posting of this problem is to high light the point that end users could not be 100% sure about the quality of the belts they purchase., especially for fabric belts.

Or if it is available, Please guide me.

I have read about single ply belts. Hope such above problems may be avoided. There may be different problems. Readers & experts are requested to share their experience for single ply conveyors.

Thanks & Regards,

Roland Heilmann
(not verified)

Finding Out - A Discussion Base

Posted on 13. Dec. 2012 - 01:16

Dear Mr. Sganesh,

pls. accept my peers sympathy in this incident. But however hard the situation now is at your plant, no one got bodily harmed and perhaps you and we all might advance to a better understanding of such technical issues. I'm not a specialist in the field of fabric belts, however the questions of safe operation concerns me a lot.

In the first place i'd like to advance to knowledgeable members of this forum the point imo already hinted at by Mr. Morgan: Air gaps as such shall not bring a fabric belt to a sudden catastrophic failure. Is that so and can this be supported by practical experience and / or theoretical demonstration?

But as inner bonding within belt / ply / no longer takes the deformation from bending and troughing + operational deformations, primary gaps should be getting bigger, as relative position to the bending center differs for different heights within the belts section.

This imo must show at a certain time on the outside: Or at the edges of the belt, or at its outer (load bearing) surface, where cracks could appear and / or minor penetrations lead to air ingress into the gaps / pockets.

So sufficiently frequent visual inspection during operation could be a first way. If automatic operational mode is required, only technical detection means could help, as are belt rip detection from control loops within the belt (?availability? + ?price?), ultrasonic detection means or perhaps technical optical control by camera + image processing system. Possible suppliers / knowhow carriers as universities, specialists etc. : to be found.

One last thought: If an elastic body such as a thin rubber panel with planar & flat internal deficiencies comes under sufficient bending strain (one or two axes), then a part of the defomation must in time become plastic, as even thin air needs some space. If the strain is removed or changed, then the area of the internal defect shall show itself with a bulge --> area of troughing in, empty turnaround of the belt at lowest possible takeup force, .. to be continued. It is, that belt pull and bulk material shall mask that effect.

Perhaps, if this could be proved applicable with fabric belts, technical detection means with sufficiently fine definition could be developed?

Best regards

R.

edit Nov., 19th

Well, on second thought it might have been a substandard provider issue as well.

Cracks Developing Across The Belt Width

Posted on 19. Dec. 2012 - 01:11

Though the evidence points to poor quality belting as the cause of your problems it is advisable to do a design audit of each conveyor to ensure that it is properly designed particularly with regard to:

- Proper transition distances

- Radius of curvature constraints ensuring

- at convex curves:

- belt edges are not overstressed

- Belt middle is not relaxed or buckled

- visa versa at concave curves

- Pulleys diameters are properly sized

- In the case of successive drive pulleys that they have sufficient distance between to allow relaxation of the rubber, about one second of travel distance

- etc

Joe Dos Santos

Dos Santos International 531 Roselane St NW Suite 810 Marietta, GA 30060 USA Tel: 1 770 423 9895 Fax 1 866 473 2252 Email: jds@ dossantosintl.com Web Site: [url]www.dossantosintl.com[/url]