Soft-start for inching

Posted in: , on 20. Oct. 2008 - 20:42

Greetings,

I am a mechanical co-op student on my first work term with the project management arm of a fertilizer plant.

I was given a small project in our granulation building. I was to install a inching drive on one of the drag conveyors.

The inching was to be used during plant maintenance to inspect the drag and to find problems, not for usage while the drag is loaded.

After designing a simple system like we use throughout the plant (small motor + chain that is hooked up to main shaft when slow speed is needed) I went to the electricians for electrical estimates, they suggested that instead I investigate using a soft-start.

http://www.benshaw.com/solidstatestarters.asp

The product looks very good, and I just want to ask if anyone has experience using a soft-start as a poor-man's VFD.

Regards,

Charles Heard

Mechanical Engineering Student

University of Alberta

Re: Soft-Start For Inching

Posted on 20. Oct. 2008 - 08:18

If you are a student engineer you need to develop an analytical approach to problem solving. So what have you thought about?

You've got a chain conveyor :

have you been and looked at it in operation, particularly when starting?

have you understood how it works?

do you understand the way the electric motor works?

have you thought about how the manufacturer selected to motor?

(hint, F = mu x N)

have you thought about the starting characteristics of the conveyor?

You're looking to use a soft start :

do you understand how a soft start works?

do you know the characteristics of the unit you propose to use?

Now the real bit :

is the characteristics of the motor output when driven by a soft start compatible with the required input of the chain conveyor ???

If yes then

use a soft start,

else

use something else

So start thinking and analysing like an engineer, and good luck.

Re: Soft-Start For Inching

Posted on 21. Oct. 2008 - 05:11

If this is a soft start only, my understanding of these is that you can only adjust ramp up time and some current parameters.

This would imply that you are jogging the drive to inspect. Otherwise I would think you are just slowly going up to full speed.

What Hp are you looking at? If under 10 Hp the price difference will be small between a soft start & a real VFD.

With a VFD, watch the speed turndown ratio & make sure it will give you the inspection speed you think you need. Since you are presumably inspecting empty your Hp draw and motor heating should not be an issue for a short term inspection on a relatively short conveyor.

This is a much better idea than the old creep drives with sprockets & over running clutch.

Re: Soft-Start For Inching

Posted on 21. Oct. 2008 - 07:31

Thanks for the quick responses.


If this is a soft start only, my understanding of these is that you can only adjust ramp up time and some current parameters.

This would imply that you are jogging the drive to inspect. Otherwise I would think you are just slowly going up to full speed.

This model holds at 7% and allows jogging for short periods of time. We plan on setting up a 10 minute max in as a redundant measure.


What Hp are you looking at? If under 10 Hp the price difference will be small between a soft start & a real VFD.

40 HP, the problem with the VFD isn't the price, but the size. The plant was built in the 60's and the MCC is full, every wall has something hanging on it.


This is a much better idea than the old creep drives with sprockets & over running clutch.

Couldn't agree more, actually in this plant we've found that the clutches wear out when left disengaged and the maintenance guys will just unattach them most of the time and attach them only when jogging.


have you been and looked at it in operation, particularly when starting?

have you understood how it works?

do you understand the way the electric motor works?

have you thought about how the manufacturer selected to motor?

(hint, F = mu x N)

have you thought about the starting characteristics of the conveyor?

You're looking to use a soft start :

do you understand how a soft start works?

do you know the characteristics of the unit you propose to use?

I haven't had an opportunity to check out the drag during a start up.

The analysys has probably been the best part of the project. I got a simple problem statement of make the maintenance guys lives easier. I've learned a lot about power transmission.

The big thing I don't know about yet is reliability for these type of units, how long they last, how much abuse they can handle. Does anyone use these and have experience with their failure rate?

Well, it's bed time, what am I doing still thinking about work?

Re: Soft-Start For Inching

Posted on 21. Oct. 2008 - 10:21

Just a thought, as it's 40 hp do you have a fluid coupling in the drive unit??

Re: Soft-Start For Inching

Posted on 21. Oct. 2008 - 03:54

It's an elastomer coupling.

Re: Soft-Start For Inching

Posted on 21. Oct. 2008 - 05:51

I'm interested how a soft start can set a motor speed?


Jogging 7 and 14% speed

Are you intending to jog the conveyor loaded or empty?

Re: Soft-Start For Inching

Posted on 21. Oct. 2008 - 07:32

It would be empty; the purpose is for inspection and other maintenance uses only.


I'm interested how a soft start can set a motor speed?

As were we. Now I'm not very good at electronics, but from my understanding the soft-start will hold the current low. For this reason you cannot run for long periods of time and there are limits on how loaded it can be.

These units are cheap (<<$2000 CDN for the 40hp, not sure how accurate pricing I can put on a public forum) and we're hoping that we can use them on our motors that could use an unloaded slow speed mode.

Re: Soft-Start For Inching

Posted on 21. Oct. 2008 - 08:04

Umm.

But surely unless you have enough current fed to a 3 phase motor it won't generate enough torque to start it rotating and turn over even an empty chain conveyor. Of course it all depends on how much torque you need to turn over your empty conveyor. As I said in my first post it's just F = mu x N, and T = F x r (which, me being old, I was doing aged 15)

The best solution is to get the local rep to bring you a unit for trial. If it works you buy it and perhaps a few more, if it doesn't you thank him for his visit but don't waste any money, just a bit of your time but you've gained some education.

Re: Soft-Start For Inching

Posted on 21. Oct. 2008 - 10:37

Someone may correct me if I am wrong but my experience with softstarts is that if there is no load it will go across the line start sooner than you may want it to.

If you set the ramp time too high there may not be enough torque to get the conveyor moving at all.

If this is for a maintenance inspection service I would look at a totally independant drive system such as a secondary (maintenance) drive with a much larger reduction reducer to slow it down to the speed you want it to go. Since it is for maintenace you could use the same starter switched to the maintenace drive. Only need a switch and a new cable running to the new drive.

Gary Blenkhorn
President - Bulk Handlng Technology Inc.
Email: garyblenkhorn@gmail.com
Linkedin Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/gary-blenkhorn-6286954b

Offering Conveyor Design Services, Conveyor Transfer Design Services and SolidWorks Design Services for equipment layouts.

Re: Soft-Start For Inching

Posted on 21. Oct. 2008 - 11:14

My classic experience with a soft start was someone setting it up, with guidance from the salesman, with a low start voltage and long ramp time. The result was a machine that would not start because the thermal overloads tripped out before it got moving!

Solution, increase the start voltage significantly and reduce the ramp time significantly. Not much of a soft start in the end.

Call me old fashioned, but I prefer fluid couplings.

Roland Heilmann
(not verified)

Re: Soft-Start For Inching

Posted on 22. Oct. 2008 - 08:42

I'd not use a soft start, I think it's use is more to start a drive softly but not to change the characteristics of a motor over a considerable length of time. Then (see above) one has to finetune the softstart unit, but this would demand finetuned working conditions. --> Check your environment...

If I have a need for two different speeds at a drive and don't want to use VFD or mechanical speed coupling I would use a multispeed electric motor. But then I take it that your motor is already there and not yet ripe to be changed...?

After all, maybe you could also request a proposal for an adequate VFD and compare. There's lots of benefits from a VFD, says my collegue from the electric dep.

Best regards

Roland

Re: Soft-Start For Inching

Posted on 22. Oct. 2008 - 09:45

As its only for turning over an empty conveyor and there's no fluid coupling why not make up an adaptor to connect a power drill (or similar) onto the motor fan extension shaft. One guy can turn the machine over while another does the checks.

Re: Soft-Start For Inching

Posted on 22. Oct. 2008 - 10:29

My classic experience with a soft start was someone setting it up, with guidance from the salesman, with a low start voltage and long ramp time. The result was a machine that would not start because the thermal overloads tripped out before it got moving!

Solution, increase the start voltage significantly and reduce the ramp time significantly. Not much of a soft start in the end.

Spoke to vendor about this. One can set the trip limits higher during the first few seconds, then once motor is moving ramp it down to desired speed. Sorta like pushing really hard to overcome friction then just maintain a force.


If this is for a maintenance inspection service I would look at a totally independant drive system such as a secondary (maintenance) drive with a much larger reduction reducer to slow it down to the speed you want it to go. Since it is for maintenace you could use the same starter switched to the maintenace drive. Only need a switch and a new cable running to the new drive.

This is similar to our status quo (which is just a lower speed motor that can be hooked up to same gearing system instead of larger motor) that is used for other things in the plant. If the vastly cheaper soft-start doesn't work the back-up design is of this style.


If I have a need for two different speeds at a drive and don't want to use VFD or mechanical speed coupling I would use a multispeed electric motor. But then I take it that your motor is already there and not yet ripe to be changed...?

After all, maybe you could also request a proposal for an adequate VFD and compare. There's lots of benefits from a VFD, says my collegue from the electric dep.

You got it right about the motor, it's in fine shape and not ripe for replacement.

Our electrical guys agree; when I asked our electrical guru about VFDs a couple months ago he said it would be great; ideally there would be one on every motor. Unfortunately for us our 40 yr old plant has no room in the MCC, and a multi-million dollar renovation would be needed.

As for fine tuning, I get the impression from a couple of the plant electricians that they are excited about a potentially new toy.


why not make up an adaptor to connect a power drill (or similar) onto the motor fan extension shaft.

This is a neat idea. Would the drill be turning the entire motor or would it just provide cooling so that flicking the motor on and off isn't as rough on the motor? (as is done at the moment)

Re: Soft-Start For Inching

Posted on 22. Oct. 2008 - 10:54

One can set the trip limits higher during the first few seconds

But not if the overloads are separate items from the sort start


like pushing really hard to overcome friction then just maintain a force

In my experience there is not a lot of difference between static and dynamic friction in chain conveyors so most of the torque you need to "unstick" a chain conveyor is needed to keep it going i.e. it's a constant torque machine. It's also a "low inertia" machine as compared with the drive motor unlike centrifugal bucket elevators.


This is a neat idea. Would the drill be turning the entire motor or would it just provide cooling so that flicking the motor on and off isn't as rough on the motor? (as is done at the moment)

Yes, the "drill" is the inspection drive that turns the motor and hence the conveyor. A bit more high tech (and less hard work) than turning the motor fan by hand!!

Re: Soft-Start For Inching

Posted on 24. Oct. 2008 - 03:14

I'm with Gary Blenkhorn and the original designer. If the chain is jammed onto the sprocket and the 'ramp up' business clears the jam the machine will carry on with maybe a few fingers in the chain. The existing system is there because it needs to be. Don't let a bunch of sparkies take over mechanical design work. People finish up in mechanical design because they were athe only ones who listened to the applied maths teacher at school! All the others fell by the wayside.