Dear mtbe1,

there is a alternate on the market. Thermo Scientific C-Level system.

http://www.thermo.com/com/cda/produc...,15357,00.html

Best Regards

CD ■

Hello,

yes ultrasonic sensors are not very well for bulk material. They work very good in fluid material and average in gravel materials. What kind of material you have in silo ?

We recommend for your silos microcells or micro wave radar or radar sensors. Depend from material you have in silo.

Very good solution you will get with radar sensor and they easy for install.

By microwave sensors you have rope in the silo. Depend from material ( abrasive, gravel materials ) you could get problems. But normally the microwave sensors work very well. During filling sometimes problems can be. In bulk material you no get problems with the cable and have long life time. The installation is very simple too. You no must adjust anything in normal silos.

The third solution will be microcells which you can mount outside at steel construction. You no must cut the steel construction for this cells. The price and the result will be well too. Only if you have high temperature difference during day you must isolate the sensors. The installation is depend from understeel construction not very difficult. For mounting you must drill 2 holes each sensor in the steel construction. Only you must unload the silo after mounting for adjust the sensor.

For further information and quote please dont be hesitate to ask us.

Best regards

Bernd

www.bs-vertrieb.de

bs-vertrieb@web.de ■

Hello,

Please may you send us your email details and we can elaborate on an option for him.

Kind regards,

Ben ■

Dear mtbe1,

if the silos are resting on a steel construction, a retrofit able weighing system

based on strain gauge sensors would do a good job. A weighing system is

indending from dust and angle of repose, but it provides weight and no level

information. If the density of the product is changing, this will cause a volume

(level) error. If you provide details of the steel construction and net load, I can

check, if a strain gauge system could do the job.

Dieter ■

I like to introduce myself. Since 25 years I work with level measurments in the world and hope I can help you for your application. I'm using all physics of level measurment in different application. Laser as well as radar or ultrasonic or accustic

To give you a definited answere you have to answere me some definited questions:

1. Please give me more information about he shape of the silo?

2. Where is the position of the flange (what size) in relationship of the filling (what kind of filling)?

3. What kind of material are you using?

4. What is the rate of the filling?

5. Is there any sound of the filling machine narrow to the silo/sensor?

By the way all physics have their own features to fail or to win.

I prefer at first Ultrasonic but the question is "which one?". There are three types of it. Standard piezo, or piston wave, or accustic. So ultrasonic is not the same ultrosonic of each supplier. May be you have more success by using another type of ultrasonic and frequency

If the the filling stream is in front or very narrow to the beam of any sensor you have a problem during filling.

3D technologie is an accustic solution and is good under dusty condition. I used them since the beginning of construction and have different experiences. In all cases the mechancally conditions are very important.

Please think about laser a bit more. OK, dust is important but I have good solutions in dusty application by using the software for those application. You can adjust the beam at the right place, far away from the filling.

If you need mor support do not hesitate to contact me.

Regards ■

Hello mtbe1

Milltronics ultrasonic systems are among the best in the world with possibly the most applications on solids of anyone.

Before you spend allot of money on a new system, I would recommend that you have the existing applications inspected and tuned by a Milltronics expert. Milltronics was acquired by Siemens in 2000 and many of those experts are still around.

A few manufacturers, including Siemens, now have non-contacting radar technology for solids measurement. This technology has been employed even on the very dusty cement homogenizing silos with great success, as an example.

If you contact me by clicking on my name, I can give you a contact in your region. Until then, you may wish to explore www.siemens.com/radar and click on the References and Case Studies link under More Info.

Regards ■

Dear mtbe1,

I can imagine the problems with ultrasonic, the damping during the filling is very high. We also have Ultrasonic in our product range but today we recommend only radar for this kind of applications. The measurement principle is independent of dust, filling noise and pneumatic filling. We have more than 10.000 radar sensors installed in applications like that, so we have very good experience.

Please have a look at our homepage were you find more information and the right location to contact.

www.vega.com

Best regards

Jürgen ■

Sir: MeasureRite Inc is the exclusive US distributor for the APM-3D Level Scanner.

The unit is uneffected by dust and moisture and can be found on many bulk solids applications here in the US.

Information can be found at www.measureriteinc.com

I can be reached at 215-962-1564

We look forward to reviewing your application requirements.

Francis Mashintonio

Vice President

MeasureRite Inc ■

MearureRite Inc is the exclusive US distributor for the APm 3D LEvel Scanner.

We currently have units installed flour and soybean at ADM, Cargill and Bunge to name a few.

The 3D LEvel Scanner is uneffected by dust or moisture and measure the Volume of the silo very accurately. It maps the silo surface taking many points of information not just one like ultrasonic or raydar.

Information can be found on our web page at www.measureriteinc.com

I can be reached at 215-962-1564 to discuss your application.

I look forward to working with you on this project.

Thank You Francis Mashintonio VP

Originally Posted by mtbe1

Best continuous level for powder apps



We have about 30 silos with different powders, ranging from 10-100ft tall.

We currently have Milltronic's ultrasonic, but have problems with them during filling, with the dust. Even when not filling, they will sometimes drop to zero or jump to full scale. On some products, they don't move at all.

We're looking for something more reliable.

Load Cells (too expensive on existing equipment)

Guided wave radar (concern with coating of the cable)

Ultrasonic (is there something new out there/better, or will we have same problem)

Radar (is radar any better at penetrating dust during fill?)

Yo-Yo (would prefer something without moving parts/high maintenance)

Has anyone used the 3D technology (maps surface of product) and is it worth it?

■

Dear Sir,

I want to propose you to use one of our electromechanical level indicator at your worsed conditioned silo as free of charge. Hundereds of users are satisfied with the long life and reliable results of YUNEL systems.

We may send one automatic level indicator to you if you pay only the freight cost to your Country and import. Please write to us.

Yours Truly,

Mustafa Kemal Yunel

Yunel Elektromekanik Co.Ltd.

Phone :+903128475200

Fax :+903128475205

TURKIYE

e-mail : sales@yunel.com

www.yunel.com

www.yunel.com.tr ■

Originally Posted by mtbe1

Best continuous level for powder apps



We have about 30 silos with different powders, ranging from 10-100ft tall.

We currently have Milltronic's ultrasonic, but have problems with them during filling, with the dust. Even when not filling, they will sometimes drop to zero or jump to full scale. On some products, they don't move at all.

We're looking for something more reliable.

Load Cells (too expensive on existing equipment)

Guided wave radar (concern with coating of the cable)

Ultrasonic (is there something new out there/better, or will we have same problem)

Radar (is radar any better at penetrating dust during fill?)

Yo-Yo (would prefer something without moving parts/high maintenance)

Has anyone used the 3D technology (maps surface of product) and is it worth it?

Yes we have the answer.

Please look at : www.apm-solutiopns.com/mediakit

This is a new techniology for volume measuring and it penetrates dust, becuase of the low frequency we use.

For questions: naud@apm-solutions.com ■

Originally Posted by mtbe1

Best continuous level for powder apps



We have about 30 silos with different powders, ranging from 10-100ft tall.

We currently have Milltronic's ultrasonic, but have problems with them during filling, with the dust. Even when not filling, they will sometimes drop to zero or jump to full scale. On some products, they don't move at all.

We're looking for something more reliable.

Load Cells (too expensive on existing equipment)

Guided wave radar (concern with coating of the cable)

Ultrasonic (is there something new out there/better, or will we have same problem)

Radar (is radar any better at penetrating dust during fill?)

Yo-Yo (would prefer something without moving parts/high maintenance)

Has anyone used the 3D technology (maps surface of product) and is it worth it?

Yes, if you need info: naud@apm-solutions.com ■

Originally Posted by mtbe1

Best continuous level for powder apps



We have about 30 silos with different powders, ranging from 10-100ft tall.

We currently have Milltronic's ultrasonic, but have problems with them during filling, with the dust. Even when not filling, they will sometimes drop to zero or jump to full scale. On some products, they don't move at all.

We're looking for something more reliable.

Load Cells (too expensive on existing equipment)

Guided wave radar (concern with coating of the cable)

Ultrasonic (is there something new out there/better, or will we have same problem)

Radar (is radar any better at penetrating dust during fill?)

Yo-Yo (would prefer something without moving parts/high maintenance)

Has anyone used the 3D technology (maps surface of product) and is it worth it?

Do you have a solution yet?

watch : www.apm-solutions.com/mediakit

Naud @apm-solutions.com ■

I urge all readers to check out acoustic based technology that maps and provides volume measurement, easily converted to mass. APM-Solutions. www.apm-solutions.com This is not my company, I am not biased other than I have heard very good things about this technology and product. ■

Hey,

you might want to check radar as its the most reliable physical measurement method availible at any environmental condition (dust, vibration, fog, rain etc). However it need to proved, that radar is applicable in the case

- Powders are possible to measure. but the larger the particle size towards gravel or crushed rock the better

- Radar works even better in highly dynamic environments (during filling/uncharging) as reflections are changing. This is great as mosty you want the information when you just fill up

- Using 2D silo radar will allow effectively to filter any structures in the silo and increase the accuracy by profile measurement instead of point measurement

Ultrasonic is the cheapest (Milltronics at low end or APM at high end). However its problematic with

- Accoustic Emissions from drives or shareker or pneumatic devices

- As ultrasonic is time of flight measurement - and time of flight is changing with the air density - its changing with pressure (altitude) and temperatue

- Ultrasonic are quite slow waves compared to radar/laser so wind can blow them away

Laser is very accurate - but as its optical you need visibility and clean it regulary

So - evenything depends on the application

cheers

Michael ■

I´m reading a lot of advertisement to the 3D APM Level Indicator - however I cannot find any success story in the internet from an end user nor any scientific paper discussing the results.

I hear by talking to different vendors that there are many problems associated due to the interpolation of the area between the 3! ultrasonic beams of the APM 3D LevelScanner. From physics It is hard to believe that distinguishing the ultrasonic reflections properly between surface, circulating welding seams, structures etc. is possible.

3D mapping with ultrasonic technology may be highly restricted, when its already limited in 1D use cause of

- dust issues (air density changes resulting in signal velocity changes resulting in distance changes)

- wind/air movement issue (ultrasonic has speed of sound - radar/laser speed of light)

- noise issue (many machine vibrations in the 10kHz measurement spectrum)

- smooth silo surfaces (echo and resonance like shouting in an empty room)

Does anyone have seen the devices operating and comparing the 3D animations with the reality? Is there any publication availible or any oplant willing to report about their experience - good and bad?

Hope someone will bring light into the dark.

Michael ■