Untitled
Without the P & I D for reference I'd say it was reasonable behaviour for the system description given.
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Bladder Tank
Originally Posted by andrewmoquin
I have a bladder tank with a pressure switch set to 30-50 psi. With power on and all valves closed, the gauge shows 50psi. We fully opened the 1-1/4" ball valve so we could time the pump on/off cycle because we had concerns about the 45 gpm pump capacity and a 50gal total volume tank (~15 gal drawdown) and burning up the submersible pump motor. After more than 1 minute the pump was still running, so we looked at the pressure gauge and it was at zero psi. We closed the ball valve and within 10 seconds the pump turned off and the pressure was back to 50psi. This system is new so what should I be looking at to fix?
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speaking as a NYSDEC certified well driller and pump installer
Water is pumped at very low pressure with no restrictions except for the pipe, tanks and valves controlling it; with that large a valve you will lose water pressure and flow quickly
What is the well depth?
" " " " diameter?
Where is the static water level?
Does the submersible pump have a water sleeve to direct well water past the motor to cool it?
Is there a check valve at the tank tee? it may be stuck open.
A six inch well gives the end user a gallon and a half of water per foot.
Have you looked in the well to see the static water level?
Is the sanitary seal O ring leaking?
It is at all possible you have a pin hole leak in the drop pipe-it can happen with poly pipe as well
The check valve in the pump may very well be stuck open, is the pump screen still attached to the pump?
The pump will run until the pressure switch is satisfied and "ALL" repeat "ALL" the water will drain back into the well.
First of all the pump is too big for the bladder tank.
The bladder tank is to small.
The submersible pump is starting and stopping constantly because the bladder tank is set at the wrong pressure
The air charge should be no greater than 48 PSI with no water in the tank for 50 PSI cut out.
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Setting the cut in pressure at twenty pounds and raising the cut out to sixty pounds will help to reduce the cycling on and off as the pump will run longer.
Be sure to set the air charge to 58 pounds in the bladder with no water in the tank.
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Adding bladder tanks is another option but adding a storage tank with a timer and mercury float switch tied into the submersible and using a small jet pump plumbed into the bladder tank to deliver water to the water using appliances will cost less money.
The large storage tank will allow the submersible to attain full speed and full head pressure with no restrictions delivering the water directly to the tank and the pump will last much longer.
You will be able to use the bladder tank with the jet pump with no problems as well.
I am in new york so I can mail you a diagram if desired.
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Re: Bladder Tank Problem
Just an observation, is it really necessary to include such a large company logo 
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Booster Pump W/Storage Tank
Could you email me the diagram you mentioned for the pump system using a storage tank. Please email to chrishouse@hotmail.com
I have a submersible at 245 feet and do not have enough pressure in the house When I set the cut in/cut out pressure at 20/40 psi. When I raise it to 40/60 PSI, it taxes the pump too much and takes too long to get to 60 psi.
Currently I am using a bladder tank, but I also already have a booster pump and storage tank that is at least 80 gallons. Otherwise I am on a tight budget and need to do this as low cost as possible.
I want the submerrsible pumping with as little head pressure as possible and to turn off the pump when the storage tank is full as opposed to when it reaches a certain pressure. I will use the booster pump to take the water from the storage tank into the bladder tank.
What I also would like to do is limit the flow into the storage tank to the volume of water my well is producing so that the well will not run dry. I am not sure the exact amount (somewhere around 4 gpm) but I figure if I set the flow to 3 gpm that I will be fine. However, I am not sure if the flow restrictor will cause too much of an increase in head pressure on the pump?
Any advice or diagrams would be appreciated
Chris
Originally Posted by lzaharisspeaking as a NYSDEC certified well driller and pump installer
Water is pumped at very low pressure with no restrictions except for the pipe, tanks and valves controlling it; with that large a valve you will lose water pressure and flow quickly
What is the well depth?
" " " " diameter?
Where is the static water level?
Does the submersible pump have a water sleeve to direct well water past the motor to cool it?
Is there a check valve at the tank tee? it may be stuck open.
A six inch well gives the end user a gallon and a half of water per foot.
Have you looked in the well to see the static water level?
Is the sanitary seal O ring leaking?
It is at all possible you have a pin hole leak in the drop pipe-it can happen with poly pipe as well
The check valve in the pump may very well be stuck open, is the pump screen still attached to the pump?
The pump will run until the pressure switch is satisfied and "ALL" repeat "ALL" the water will drain back into the well.
First of all the pump is too big for the bladder tank.
The bladder tank is to small.
The submersible pump is starting and stopping constantly because the bladder tank is set at the wrong pressure
The air charge should be no greater than 48 PSI with no water in the tank for 50 PSI cut out.
=========================================================
Setting the cut in pressure at twenty pounds and raising the cut out to sixty pounds will help to reduce the cycling on and off as the pump will run longer.
Be sure to set the air charge to 58 pounds in the bladder with no water in the tank.
===========================================================
Adding bladder tanks is another option but adding a storage tank with a timer and mercury float switch tied into the submersible and using a small jet pump plumbed into the bladder tank to deliver water to the water using appliances will cost less money.
The large storage tank will allow the submersible to attain full speed and full head pressure with no restrictions delivering the water directly to the tank and the pump will last much longer.
You will be able to use the bladder tank with the jet pump with no problems as well.
I am in new york so I can mail you a diagram if desired.
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Water
All that is required is:
(A twenty four hour timer)
Manually set to turn on for one minute every half hour.
A mercury tilt switch to shut of pump flow from the well pump
If your storage tank is not an open to air tank it will not work.
tractor supply has a good selection of water tanks.
a quantity of piping to open air tank
You need to buy a timer and tilt switch which is the same voltage as the well pump. ■
Re: Bladder Tank Problem
My 80 gallon tank is an open air tank.
I assume you mean turn the pump on for one minute every half hour and have the tilt switch turn it off if it is full?
If so, I don't totally understand this. Is that to try to keep the tank full? If so, it seems like it would run the tank dry when there is a high demand in a 30 minute stretch such as washing a car, etc.
Originally Posted by lzaharis(A twenty four hour timer)
Manually set to turn on for one minute every half hour.
A mercury tilt switch to shut of pump flow from the well pump
If your storage tank is not an open to air tank it will not work.
tractor supply has a good selection of water tanks.
a quantity of piping to open air tank
You need to buy a timer and tilt switch which is the same voltage as the well pump.
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Re: Bladder Tank Problem
Originally Posted by chrishouseI assume you mean turn the pump on for one minute every half hour and have the tilt switch turn it off if it is full?
If so, I don't totally understand this. Is that to try to keep the tank full? If so, it seems like it would run the tank dry when there is a high demand in a 30 minute stretch such as washing a car, etc.
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The timer controls the well pump run time period.
The mercury tilt switch contols the water level in your tank coming from the well.
The tilt switch has a high water limit and low water limit to shut the well pump off when it is full. the tilt switch will start the well pump when the water level in your tank drops to the minimum level. the timer will allow the pump to run for one minute and then stop untill the timer cycles for one hour.
You still have a problem with low water storage volume as you apparently use a lot of water.
A booster pump is used after the storage tank.
A plumbing supply company will help you with this to obtain the needed parts. ■
2 Other Bladder Tank Questions
1. If I put to bladder tanks of different sizes in series, can I add the draw down from each tank together to get my total draw down? Someone told me that in this case I would still only have the draw down of the smaller tank.
2. Will the bladder tank work (still push water) at lower press such as 10/30 or 5/25?
In case you are curious, here is the reason I ask. As per my question in the previous post above, I am debating feeding my booster pump with a bladder tank instead of a standard tank and I want to reduce the head pressure on my pump as much as possible.
Also, my booster pump has a small bladder tank, and I want it to feed into my larger one.
Chris ■
Water Etc.
Originally Posted by chrishouse2. Will the bladder tank work (still push water) at lower press such as 10/30 or 5/25?
In case you are curious, here is the reason I ask. As per my question in the previous post above, I am debating feeding my booster pump with a bladder tank instead of a standard tank and I want to reduce the head pressure on my pump as much as possible.
Also, my booster pump has a small bladder tank, and I want it to feed into my larger one.
Chris
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Total head pressure involves and includes the well pump depth and the distance to the point of use and that will not change.
Adding bladder tanks is waste of money for you, as the pump you have already has one all that is needed is to increase the captive air charge presssure to 20 PSI cut in and 60 psi cut out.
You are better off buying a very large black plastic water tank. the timer and the mercury tilt switch, have a plumber come in and plumb up the well pump timer and tilt switch, then plumb in the pump with the small bladder- a booster pump does not have a bladder tank-it pumps at higher presssures to fill the bladder tank or low pressure municipal system by increasing the water pressure delivered.
the idea is to allow your well pump to run up to full RPM to allow the pump to run up to its proper speed. With your system now it cannot do that. if you have a larger tank than the 80 gallon one the pump will run properly. ■
Re: Bladder Tank Problem
Originally Posted by lzaharisTotal head pressure involves and includes the well pump depth and the distance to the point of use and that will not change.
You are better off buying a very large black plastic water tank. the timer and the mercury tilt switch, have a plumber come in and plumb up the well pump timer and tilt switch, then plumb in the pump with the small bladder- a booster pump does not have a bladder tank-it pumps at higher presssures to fill the bladder tank or low pressure municipal system by increasing the water pressure delivered.
the idea is to allow your well pump to run up to full RPM to allow the pump to run up to its proper speed. With your system now it cannot do that. if you have a larger tank than the 80 gallon one the pump will run properly.
Actually my booster pump has a built in bladder tank. It is sold both as a shallow well pump and a booster pump.
I already have another bladder tank, so need to buy one and I also have a 90 gallon standard tank. I am trying to get by using what I have without buying more stuff.
I understand that head pressure is a function of well or water depth, but by forcing it to also full a bladder tank to 60 psi, adds 60 psi to the pressure the pump has to pump as well as to the pressure on the pipe in the tank. I am trying to eliminate that extra pressure by setting the pressure switch very low on the bladder tank and the allowing that to feed the booster pump.
I want the pump to cut in at 5 psi and out at 25 psi to reduce cycling. The second bladder tank after the booster pump will reduce cycling of the booster pump.
Actually, I am looking at two configurations. One where I gravity feed water to the booster pump from the 90 gal tank. and the other where I feed the booster pump from a low pressure bladder tank.
The good thing about the first approach is that the 90 gallon tank will not be pressurized and will not add any extra load to the pump. The problem with the first is that I can't seem to find a way to turn the pump off when tank is full.
The second configuration works well because I can turn the pump off at a low pressure with a pressure switch on the bladder tank. However, I am still adding unnecessary pressure to the pump.
I am still not sure if the bladder tank will expel the water properly at say, 5psi. I did confirm that the two blader tanks in series will increase the draw down.
Anyway, that is sort of where I am heading. Any and all insight is appreciated.
Adding bladder tanks is waste of money for you, as the pump you have already has one all that is needed is to increase the captive air charge presssure to 20 PSI cut in and 60 psi cut out. ■
Bladder Tank Problem
bladder tank and zero psi when valve open
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I have a bladder tank with a pressure switch set to 30-50 psi. With power on and all valves closed, the gage shows 50psi. We fully opened the 1-1/4" ball valve so we could time the pump on/off cycle because we had concerns about the 45 gpm pump capacity and a 50gal total volume tank (~15 gal drawdown) and burning up the submersible pump motor. After more than 1 minute the pump was still running, so we looked at the pressure gage and it was at zero psi. We closed the ball valve and within 10 seconds the pump turned off and the pressure was back to 50psi. This system is new so what should I be looking at to fix?