Different Makes of Unbalanced Motors

Posted in: , on 7. Feb. 2009 - 18:58

Dear Experts,

In one of our vibrofeeders, we have two different makes of unbalanced motors.

Due to spare nonavailability, we had to go for different manufacturer on one side.

Now we experience the difference of amperes between the two unbalanced motors.

Almost double. Mechanically the setting of unbalanced counter weights, motor RPMs, Sizes of counter weights, both sides ( front & back ) springs, motor bearing conditions look same.

Though no abnormaility is seen while running, the difference of ampere makes bit uncomfortable.

When checked with electrical engineers, the connection type is same on both the motors

as per Delta connection.

What could be the possible reasons?

Please post your opinions.

Regards,

Re: Different Makes Of Unbalanced Motors

Posted on 7. Feb. 2009 - 06:25

Dear sganesh,

What are the nameplates showing?

Are the motors connected properly?

Are there no fuses blown?

What happens when one motor is switched off?

Can you interchange the two motors and measure again?

Are the Amp-measurements executed in the same way? (f.i both measurements in one phase).

Etc.

A practical good field engineers employs field action.

Best regards

Teus

Teus

Re: Different Makes Of Unbalanced Motors

Posted on 8. Feb. 2009 - 08:12

Thank you Mr.Teus!

Please find the details :

North side motor :

1000 rpm

2.1 kw

Full load current 5.2A

380 volts

Delta connection

NO LOAD TRIAL TAKEN.CURRENT DRAWN FOUND:1.3AMPS PER PHASE

South side motor :

1000 rpm

2.1 kw

Full load current 4.8A

415 volts

Delta connection

NO LOAD TRIAL TAKEN.CURRENT DRAWN FOUND:3.2AMPS PER PHASE

Voltage being given is 415 Volts.

Ampere is uniform in all three phases.

In no load so far it has not tripped. For load trial we need to divert the production and we are waiting.

Thanks & regards,

Re: Different Makes Of Unbalanced Motors

Posted on 8. Feb. 2009 - 09:10

Dear sganesh,

The 2 motors are not the same.

One is for 380V-50Hz and the other is for 415V-50Hz. Their powerfactor is slightly different (0.6135 and 0.6086)

The given 1000 rpm is the synchronous rpm. The full load rpm can (and probably will) differ.

The north motor (380V) is fed with 415V and therefore will deliver a torque that is a factor (415/380)^2 = 19% higher.

Your information does not tell, whether the no load test were with one motor or with 2 motors at the same time.

As I understand, NOT being a vibrating screen expert, the 2 motors are mechanically coupled through the screen.

Therefore the 2 motors have to share the load, according to their torque curves and mechanical load, which are probably not the same.

As this is vibrating equipment, the vibration load on each motor can differ in phase.

Looking at the different no load Amps, I would say that the 2 motors are encountering different loads. A vibrating screen experienced person is needed.

All for now.

Teus

Teus

Re: Different Makes Of Unbalanced Motors

Posted on 8. Feb. 2009 - 09:29
Quote Originally Posted by Teus TuinenburgView Post
........

Your information does not tell, whether the no load test were with one motor or with 2 motors at the same time.

As I understand, NOT being a vibrating screen expert, the 2 motors are mechanically coupled through the screen.

Therefore the 2 motors have to share the load, according to their torque curves and mechanical load, which are probably not the same.

As this is vibrating equipment, the vibration load on each motor can differ in phase.

...............

All for now.

Teus

Thank you Mr.Teus.

The motors have extended shafts on both sides of the motor on which the counter weights are fixed. These motors are directly fixed on the vibrofeeder.

The no load here means, there were no material on the vibrofeeder. Not solo run of the motors.

Both the motors were running and vibrating the vibrofeeder.

Amperes were checked for both the motors.

I thought they should share the load. But I find difference in amperes.

Regards,

Re: Different Makes Of Unbalanced Motors

Posted on 8. Feb. 2009 - 10:00

Dear sganesh,

The question now are:

1- Are the two motors getting the same load? (dissipation of vibrating energy the same for each motor?)

2- Do the 2 motors have the same Torque/rpm curve for sharing a load?.

The torque curves are NOT the same because the 2 motors are different.

The 380V motors can deliver a higher torque because it is running on 415V.

An experienced engineer is needed. (from this forum perhaps)

success

Teus

Teus

From Practical Experience

Posted on 8. Feb. 2009 - 08:38

It is fairly important for the use of the same type motor mfr and motor specifications. Unmatched is NOT DESIRABLE.

Guage or length of wiring to motors may not be the same or the new unmatched motor may require a higher grade of wire? FOR electrical experts to say.

Feed end motors could draw higher amps due to HIGHER LOAD to handle at the FEED END vs discharge end motors which handle less load and hence would theoretically draw less amps, for less work.


Quote Originally Posted by Teus TuinenburgView Post
Dear sganesh,

The question now are:

1- Are the two motors getting the same load? (dissipation of vibrating energy the same for each motor?)

2- Do the 2 motors have the same Torque/rpm curve for sharing a load?.

The torque curves are NOT the same because the 2 motors are different.

The 380V motors can deliver a higher torque because it is running on 415V.

An experienced engineer is needed. (from this forum perhaps)

success

Teus

Best Regards, George Baker Regional Sales Manager - Canada TELSMITH Inc Mequon, WI 1-519-242-6664 Cell E: (work) [email]gbaker@telsmith.com[/email] E: (home) [email] gggman353@gmail.com[/email] website: [url]www.telsmith.com[/url] Manufacturer of portable, modular and stationary mineral processing equipment for the aggregate and mining industries.

Re: Different Makes Of Unbalanced Motors

Posted on 17. Feb. 2009 - 06:19

Hi sganesh,

Coupled or not: This is a bad idea to run a motor with a different voltage from the data tag. Can you get a replacement motor with the correct rating? This is the most likely the reason for your Amperage being off. With a higher voltage the actual running speed is likely different from the other motor, this can put an additional load ont the motor especially if they are coupled to one another.

Regards, Ralf Weiser (001)-484-718-3518 [url]www.aerzenusa.com[/url]

Re: Different Makes Of Unbalanced Motors

Posted on 17. Feb. 2009 - 08:54

sganesh

Is the feeder working correctly? You should have two identical motors but if the feeder works and you can't change motors for any reason - where is the problem?

Ziggy Gregory www.vibfem.com.au

Re: Different Makes Of Unbalanced Motors

Posted on 12. Mar. 2009 - 06:18
Quote Originally Posted by sganeshView Post
Thank you Mr.Teus!

Please find the details :

North side motor :

1000 rpm

2.1 kw

Full load current 5.2A

380 volts

Delta connection

NO LOAD TRIAL TAKEN.CURRENT DRAWN FOUND:1.3AMPS PER PHASE

South side motor :

1000 rpm

2.1 kw

Full load current 4.8A

415 volts

Delta connection

NO LOAD TRIAL TAKEN.CURRENT DRAWN FOUND:3.2AMPS PER PHASE

Voltage being given is 415 Volts.

Ampere is uniform in all three phases.

In no load so far it has not tripped. For load trial we need to divert the production and we are waiting.

Thanks & regards,

Today we made that both North & South side motors are of same make and No load trail taken.

South Side North Side

Motor Motor

AMPS READING: R-1.87AMPS R-2.09AMPS

Y-1.83AMPS Y-2.03AMPS

B-1.93AMPS B-2.10AMPS

O/L SETTING ON MIN. 3 AMPS 3 AMPS

This is for your feed back.

Thanks a lot for everyone's advice.