Namaskar Deepak Verma,

Is the transformer farm you have interconnected with the power grid???

I think the real problem is really whether you can wait for 18 new 500-foot long rolls of belt as

you will be spending much more money by slitting the existing "NEW" belt for your use.

Slitting 400 Millimeters(16 inches of belt) from the belt from one side only is a really really

bad idea unless your "Master Slitter" has a customer or customers that can use conveyor belt

for a 16 inch bucket elevator as they would be left with 9,000 feet (2,750 meters)rounded

of 12 inch belting with no customer!!

Have you contacted any other belt master slitter of some other brand/manufacture that

may have the belt you need???

You have to understand that the master slitter will be hesitant to do this unless you are planning on

paying much more for the belt as he or they may not have a customer for the 12 inch belt that is left.

You obviously have a bad idler that froze and cut the belt in half I think.

1

=========================================================================

Having said that I would seriously investigate having the belt repaired on each flight.

The reasons why:

1. having each flight of belt removed and mended would allow you to inspect the flight from end to end.

a. add lagging any drive pulleys that need to be repaired

b. replace any pulley bearings that need to be replaced(changing pulley and bearing sets is faster if you have the ability and equipment to do so).

2. replace any and all bad return idlers and troughing idlers (if the idlers do not spin, you do not win!!) I hate lost distance belts!!!!!

3. resurvey the belt flight and measure the dimensions of the flight once more and level the conveyor flight from side to side

and end to end to make sure it is within the tolerances required before the repaired belt or replacement belt is installed .

2

============================================================================================ ■

Oh, the joys of long distance conveying. Forgive me for saying I could have told you so. Belt ripping is not infrequent although it is probably more frequent than splices coming apart in the middle of nowhere. Our forums give an impression that the world revolves (Ho, Ho Ho) on long distance belt conveyors. The longer the better in fact. I try not to involve with that monstrous machinery and prefer the alternatives: as you, or your financial management, are now forced to do. There is nothing you can do to prevent belt slitting. A nail in a piece of discarded wood which is rubbing onto a belt can quickly seriously weaken a belt before it is noticed and removed after the event. Speaking of discard....

While slitting a wider belt to produce a narrower one is not advisable, it is all you can do under the circumstances.

If there is a 1600 belt available the simple question is, why isn't there sufficient 1200 belt also?

The long and short term consequences are the same viz., you have to very carefully discard 3500metres of brand new belt which has been slit in three so that it cannot be used for anything other than garage floor tiles (Been there; done that. The oil must be carefully collected during sump changes!) Steel chord will slit the edges off anything it is pretending to seal. Anyway who would want 3500 metres of skirting rubber, steel chord or otherwise.

Consideration of whether of not you are also destroying any anti rip wire embedments in the originally wider belt are not worth considering. You will be just one more victim of the uselessness of anti rip protection.

Sourcing stockholders belting is not realistic for your case. Finance, transport and customs timescales will land you dead in the water. Slit your belt and advise your tight fisted fiscal management that they now need to buy replacements for the two belt lengths....at today's prices.

Essar and conveying in general is not a very happy marriage, is it?

If it was me I wouldn't tell the upper financiers about the rubber tiling projects. They'd probably have the nerve to charge for the tiles! Come to think of it you could find a devious willing relative to use a simple jig to cut up the tiles and flog them in a car boot sale together on Sundays. That is the British solution. My boy, Hey Vey, it should happen to me!

Again, with tears in my eyes...where's my emoticons? ■

Potentially somewhat off topic, and it may not be feasible for various reasons, though perhaps an options is using the 1 600 mm conveyor belt as it is.

Regards,

Lyle ■

I apologise for not asking about any emergency reclaim system and it's capability.

Joy make a brilliant towable emergency reclaimer. I wouldn't use anything else, for reclaim, if I had my time over again.

You wouldn't be able to get a new one in time but you could buy a couple for the plant pool because the way things are going with Essar you are bound to need them sooner or later. Probably sooner.

Keep on trucking......where's them there emoticons then? ■

Dear all,

By the way, the question is posted, I assume that no belt has been damaged, and Mr.Deepak wants to know that if 1200 mm steel cord belt can be replaced by 1600 mm with steel cord belt by side trimming, in case of emergency. I may suggest that if the belts can be chemically bonded again, it would be a better solution.

Belts protection in HT drive is lower than that of LT drives. Kindly post your opinion.

Regards, ■

I assume that the thread starter is not trying to cover up something. If the question is really hypothetical then there is no argument. Buy belt now to save yourselves embarrassment.

As a free lesson in English the poster should not have written in the present tense but rather in the future imperfect.

This does not alter the fact that Essar and conveyors do not seem to have a joyous union. If you really want to waste members' time expect the fury. In the meantime get your act together. It is customary good manners to appoint a single person in all outside dealings on a particular subject. Confusing yourselves while changing the timbre of the topic just increases members' amusement and confirms the worth of Indian exam results.

Have a nice day. ■

Dear experts,

If both belts are having same rating , but different width, is it possible to replace a damaged smaller width belt by larger width belt, after trimming on sides ?

If yes, should it be trimmed on both side ? Or one side trimming would be sufficient ?

The steel cord belt has many cords inside. They are having Left Hand Lay and Right Hand Lay cords. Usually they are laid one after another , in successive pattern.

Why it is necessary to have such patterns ?. I was told that it is to avoid off tracking. The reasons for off tracking depend on external factors like material being received off-set on the belt , damaged rollers, worn-out pulleys, offset idler frames and/or pulleys, skewed joint, etc., Would it happen if the cords used are only LH or only RH lay cords ? The crane ropes are non-twisting ropes. Are such ropes not used in steel cord belts, to avoid taking such pain as above.

I could not able to convince myself, since the cords are embedded between the top and bottom covers and covers are only having contact with the idlers and pulleys.

How the pattern of cords is contributing on the off tracking issues ? When referring the belt manuals, the pattern of cords in off-tracking is not highlighted by the belt manufacturers.

Is trimming by only one side, to reduce the width, would make any ill effect, if the numbers of LH or RH cords would be different significantly after trimming?

Or is it necessary that the cords would be arranged one after another ? Or would it be possible 10 cords would be LH lay cords and the next 10 would be RH lay cords , for example, while manufacturing steel cord belts ?

Through this forum, I have learnt many useful tips. Still many are to be learnt. I am considering myself to learn. One example is given below.

https://forum.bulk-online.com/showth...s-Joint-Length

Regarding long slitting of the steel cord belts, I had raised about the break plies selection. But did not get reply so far.

https://forum.bulk-online.com/showth...eel-Cord-Belts

Many information required for maintenance engineers are not available, as they are too sensitive to be shared by manufacturers ( trade secrets ).

Same is the reason for standardization.

Thanks for all the experts for their kind guidance and sharing their knowledge.

Regards, ■

Originally Posted by sganesh

Dear experts,

If both belts are having same rating , but different width, is it possible to replace a damaged smaller width belt by larger width belt, after trimming on sides ?

If yes, should it be trimmed on both side ? Or one side trimming would be sufficient ?

The steel cord belt has many cords inside. They are having Left Hand Lay and Right Hand Lay cords. Usually they are laid one after another , in successive pattern.

Why it is necessary to have such patterns ?. I was told that it is to avoid off tracking. The reasons for off tracking depend on external factors like material being received off-set on the belt , damaged rollers, worn-out pulleys, offset idler frames and/or pulleys, skewed joint, etc., Would it happen if the cords used are only LH or only RH lay cords ? The crane ropes are non-twisting ropes. Are such ropes not used in steel cord belts, to avoid taking such pain as above.

I could not able to convince myself, since the cords are embedded between the top and bottom covers and covers are only having contact with the idlers and pulleys.

How the pattern of cords is contributing on the off tracking issues ? When referring the belt manuals, the pattern of cords in off-tracking is not highlighted by the belt manufacturers.

Is trimming by only one side, to reduce the width, would make any ill effect, if the numbers of LH or RH cords would be different significantly after trimming?

Or is it necessary that the cords would be arranged one after another ? Or would it be possible 10 cords would be LH lay cords and the next 10 would be RH lay cords , for example, while manufacturing steel cord belts ?

Through this forum, I have learnt many useful tips. Still many are to be learnt. I am considering myself to learn. One example is given below.

https://forum.bulk-online.com/showth...s-Joint-Length

Regarding long slitting of the steel cord belts, I had raised about the break plies selection. But did not get reply so far.

https://forum.bulk-online.com/showth...eel-Cord-Belts

Many information required for maintenance engineers are not available, as they are too sensitive to be shared by manufacturers ( trade secrets ).

Same is the reason for standardization.

Thanks for all the experts for their kind guidance and sharing their knowledge.

Regards,

======================================================================

Dear Mr. Ganesh,

Taking only your interest in steel cord construction and torsional behavior, I comment as follows:

All steel cord belts used including 7x7 - 7x19+ are torsionally responsive to tension due to the helix configuration of each strand. Torsional cord response can lead to miss-tracking if not balanced. Installing RL then LL insures the belt will not banana. Splices are another story. Single step, 2-step and so on are more complicated. Thus, the pattern is reversed between right side and left side of splice. We also insure the outer cords will not catch the edge cords when observing the direction of travel.

There are many reasons that can contribute to mal-tracking caused by belt construction including cord tension irregularities, cord position irregularities, factory press imbalance, rubber flashing imbalance, .....

=======================================================

Wide to small and visa versa belt width marriage - trim both sides symmetrical. Asymmetrical narrow to wide belt will cause the local section to hook or twist due to imbalance of cord forces.

All one lay will cause miss-tracking, as per above comments.

Need special knowledge of splice pattern when connecting belts of differing cord counts. You do not want to cause high local stress risers in belt.

In India all things happen. ■

Dear Mr. Verma,

In my opinion, if you cannot install a 1600 mm wide belt full circle, clearing steel supports, idler length, and pulleys, next best approach is to slit symmetrically on both sides. You would need to install the slitter that will cut to outer edge cords, after it is fully applied. Tricky bit is to pull 1600 mm belt width through slitter. Outer cords will be scuffed and lose protective corrosive coating. Cords will take time to deteriorate. So eventually, you should replace the belt. Maybe coating outer cords with REMA primer will enhance time before failure. ■

Thank you Mr.Nordell for detailed and much appreciable reply.

Request to clear one more doubt.

The hoist ropes are having inner core as LH ( or RH ) and outer layer as RH ( or LH ). Such arrangement help to avoid twisting or making kinks in the ropes.

In stead of using LH and RH ropes in steel cord belts , can the steel cord belts be manufactured using such above ropes ?

Would they eliminate the problems may arise like banana and in splicings. ?

Thanking you once again for enlightening us & lots of regards,

S.Ganesh ■

Originally Posted by sganesh

Thank you Mr.Nordell for detailed and much appreciable reply.

Request to clear one more doubt.

The hoist ropes are having inner core as LH ( or RH ) and outer layer as RH ( or LH ). Such arrangement help to avoid twisting or making kinks in the ropes.

In stead of using LH and RH ropes in steel cord belts , can the steel cord belts be manufactured using such above ropes ?

Would they eliminate the problems may arise like banana and in splicings. ?

Thanking you once again for enlightening us & lots of regards,

S.Ganesh

===========================================

If the mgrs. could it would be done. ■

Dear Mr. Vermaa:

You can slit steel cord belting and use it successfully.

There are several issues:

1. Please verify with the manufacturer that your system is compatible with the higher ST rated belting. An ST1600 has a slightly higher recommended pulley diameter, etc.

2. With a slit belt, you will probably lose any of the detection systems that are in it. If this is important, do not use slit belt. (Although, you can add these in after the belt is slit. Very expensive to do, but BMG has done this for our customers in the past.)

1. The steel cord should be slit from both sides. If not, on new belt, the steel cords would be offset by the molded edge on one side. On used belts, the wear pattern will be offset. In both instances, this will cause differing tensions and also tracking issues.

2. The slitting machine should be set up so that the blades are cutting on the edge of the steel cord that is the waste. This will allow at least some of the cord rubber to remain intact. The blades must be monitored regularly as they will dull fast.

3. Any edge cords that are showing MUST be sealed to prevent intrusion of corrosion.

4. If you are slitting used belting, you usually have to cut out any splices and resplice the new width.

In short, yes it can and has been done many times. BMG has some customers that will only buy used steel cord belt and have us slit it for them to their system width. Check with your belt installation and splicing company or others in your area for an experienced company. ■

Originally Posted by nordell

Dear Mr. Verma,

In my opinion, if you cannot install a 1600 mm wide belt full circle, clearing steel supports, idler length, and pulleys, next best approach is to slit symmetrically on both sides. You would need to install the slitter that will cut to outer edge cords, after it is fully applied. Tricky bit is to pull 1600 mm belt width through slitter. Outer cords will be scuffed and lose protective corrosive coating. Cords will take time to deteriorate. So eventually, you should replace the belt. Maybe coating outer cords with REMA primer will enhance time before failure.

From the postings of Mr. Verma and Sidharth,it appears to be a hypothetical situation.

I have come across several cases of belt ripping. Immediate solution is to be taken considering the various operating requirements.

Any experienced O/M personnel weigh all following options and take a decision.

1. As Mr.Nordel suggested, 1600mm belt of same ST rating can be side cut and used.(the side cut out belt piece can be longitudinally joined if the cost is not

prohibitive.But cut belt is not used as skirt as it may damage the main belt).

2. In emergent situations Fasteners to join the cut pieces longitudinally for few days is also done after removing the scrapers, long usage will spoil the lagging over pulleys.

This is done for short distance rip and in dry material handling,a thin belt cover is introduced to prevent centre spill.

In power plant it may be necessary to do this to prevent total shut down.

3. A thorough material management exercise is to be done to ensure availability of spare belts.

4. Though it is still argued, I favour a anti rip protection weft so that the entire belt will not be ripped.

I have seen the rip protecting fabric hitting and removing the obstacle and saving the belt.

Narayanan Nalinakshan. ■

Originally Posted by NarayananNalinakshan

From the postings of Mr. Verma and Sidharth,it appears to be a hypothetical situation.

I have come across several cases of belt ripping. Immediate solution is to be taken considering the various operating requirements.

Any experienced O/M personnel weigh all following options and take a decision.

1. As Mr.Nordel suggested, 1600mm belt of same ST rating can be side cut and used.(the side cut out belt piece can be longitudinally joined if the cost is not

prohibitive.But cut belt is not used as skirt as it may damage the main belt).

2. In emergent situations Fasteners to join the cut pieces longitudinally for few days is also done after removing the scrapers, long usage will spoil the lagging over pulleys.

This is done for short distance rip and in dry material handling,a thin belt cover is introduced to prevent centre spill.

In power plant it may be necessary to do this to prevent total shut down.

3. A thorough material management exercise is to be done to ensure availability of spare belts.

4. Though it is still argued, I favour a anti rip protection weft so that the entire belt will not be ripped.

I have seen the rip protecting fabric hitting and removing the obstacle and saving the belt.

Narayanan Nalinakshan.

============================================================

Best protection against belt slitting/ripping is proper chute design and good maintenance.

We have installed 500 km with one notable rip. The rip was caused by a primary gyratory crusher concave liner. Last one of 23 that passed through chute was positioned on its edge and catch a cross beam about 1 meter above the belt. The 2 km rip occurred before the system was shutdown. Extremely unusual condition. No other rips have occurred on our systems with curved hood and spoon designs. ■

Hello,

It is better to leave the task of belt narrowing, to belt supplier / manufacturer. Tell the belt supplier that you will be paying for 1600 mm wide belt, but let him narrow it to 1200 mm width, and then supply it, so that you can directly install it. If you are lucky he will forgo the cutting charges.

Some information is as below to avoid splitting of steel cord belt:

1) Some manufacturer/s’ steel cord belts have conductor (thin wire loop) within the belt spanning the belt width, at certain interval (say 100 m ?). There is a sensor system (transmitter and receiver unit across belt width). The cutting (slitting of belt width and thereby conductor loop) alters the nature of signal in sensor system. Conversely, the alteration in signal is interpreted as belt slitting, and stops the conveyor automatically.

2) The dangerous foreign objects (crow-bar, rod, etc.)’s most probable source is material coming from mine / stockyard. So first conveyor should have such system; prior to transfer to chute.

3) To provide double protection to a 3.5 km long conveyor, one can make it into two as say 0.1 km + 3.4 km length. Install aforesaid arrangement in both of them.

4) Keep eye that nobody is doing sabotage. See that there are normal / good relation among plant operating people.

Ishwar G. Mulani

Author of Book: ‘Engineering Science And Application Design For Belt Conveyors’. Conveyor design basis ISO (thereby book is helpful to design conveyors as per national standards of most of the countries across world). New print Nov., 2012.

Author of Book: ‘Belt Feeder Design And Hopper Bin Silo’

Advisor / Consultant for Bulk Material Handling System & Issues.

Pune, India. Tel.: 0091 (0)20 25871916

Email: conveyor.ishwar.mulani@gmail.com

Website: www.conveyor.ishwarmulani.com ■

Originally Posted by I G Mulani

Hello,

It is better to leave the task of belt narrowing, to belt supplier / manufacturer. Tell the belt supplier that you will be paying for 1600 mm wide belt, but let him narrow it to 1200 mm width, and then supply it, so that you can directly install it. If you are lucky he will forgo the cutting charges.

Some information is as below to avoid splitting of steel cord belt:

1) Some manufacturer/s’ steel cord belts have conductor (thin wire loop) within the belt spanning the belt width, at certain interval (say 100 m ?). There is a sensor system (transmitter and receiver unit across belt width). The cutting (slitting of belt width and thereby conductor loop) alters the nature of signal in sensor system. Conversely, the alteration in signal is interpreted as belt slitting, and stops the conveyor automatically.

2) The dangerous foreign objects (crow-bar, rod, etc.)’s most probable source is material coming from mine / stockyard. So first conveyor should have such system; prior to transfer to chute.

3) To provide double protection to a 3.5 km long conveyor, one can make it into two as say 0.1 km + 3.4 km length. Install aforesaid arrangement in both of them.

4) Keep eye that nobody is doing sabotage. See that there are normal / good relation among plant operating people.

Ishwar G. Mulani

Author of Book: ‘Engineering Science And Application Design For Belt Conveyors’. Conveyor design basis ISO (thereby book is helpful to design conveyors as per national standards of most of the countries across world). New print Nov., 2012.

Author of Book: ‘Belt Feeder Design And Hopper Bin Silo’

Advisor / Consultant for Bulk Material Handling System & Issues.

Pune, India. Tel.: 0091 (0)20 25871916

Email: conveyor.ishwar.mulani@gmail.com

Website: www.conveyor.ishwarmulani.com

==============================================

I think he has or will acquire a exiting 1600 mm belt. What would be the point of purchasing a 1600 mm wide to cut it down to 1200 mm? Maybe I am missing your point. ■

Hello,

I know this is hypothetical case. Our answer (if we give) will be always on a consideration that such thing has happened and what could be the course of action. Accordingly, I am just contributing information.

Referring to my earlier posting, I missed a point about belt width narrowing. Its general information is as below.

While narrowing the 1600 mm width, it may happen that exact 1200 mm is not possible due to cord presence. In such case , one can opt for nearest value to 1200 mm, within the following tolerances, which could be good enough for use on existing idlers and pulleys. The implication for material cross section on belt will be accordingly and to be taken care by adjusting feeding rate, etc.

Pulley wider by 100 mm, belt width 400 to 650 mm: Within +/- 25 mm from standard belt width

Pulley wider by 150 mm, belt width 800 to 1000 mm: Within +/- 37 mm from standard belt width

Pulley wider by 200 mm, belt width 1200 to 2000 mm: Within +/- 50 mm from standard belt width

The above values are for reasonable compromise solution, and not rigid in nature. So designer can take his own decision.

Ishwar G. Mulani

Author of Book: ‘Engineering Science And Application Design For Belt Conveyors’. Conveyor design basis ISO (thereby book is helpful to design conveyors as per national standards of most of the countries across world). New print Nov., 2012.

Author of Book: ‘Belt Feeder Design And Hopper Bin Silo’

Advisor / Consultant for Bulk Material Handling System & Issues.

Pune, India. Tel.: 0091 (0)20 25871916

Email: conveyor.ishwar.mulani@gmail.com

Website: www.conveyor.ishwarmulani.com ■