In answer to your question 1 it is not easy to say in one sentence. When installed only on the ground against an uncovered conventional conveyor, the conventional canveyor can be lower price by approx 30%. when the conveyors are elevated and covered and the conventional conveyor requires transfer stations then the pipe conveyor can be lower by 30% and there are cases in between where they are similar cost.

Regarding Q2 generally pipe conveyors are quieter than conventional conveyors so are suitable for installing close to residential property. We have recorded noise levels of 60 dBA 2 meters from the conveyor.

P Holt

Dosco Overseas Eng Ltd. ■

Dear Peter,

Q1: same opinion as Paul Holt, maybe additionally: the power consumption can be approximately 1.3 ... 1.7 times higher.

Q2: Pipe Conveyors are definitely very quiet along the conveying route and there are some tricks to even reduce the very low noise as using rubber plates when fixing the idlers on the frame or using idlers with greater diameter to reduce the rotation speed.

An other point: KOCH has recently built a Pipe Conveyor for RWE as a subcontractor, it is placed in Werne/Germany.

regards,

Lukas ■

Our measurements say the pipe conveyor produces more noise when evaluating Quid Quo Pro.

Often pipe conveyors are run at slower speeds to keep excessive power and tension under control. They use more belt, consume more power, have higher tension ratings, have a higher belt mass and require twice as many idlers, with smaller roll diameters that spin at higher RPM. Tell me in this set of data where the noise is likely to go down. This is sales Bunk!

FOrming of the belt into a circle also requires power, et. al. The squirm effect between idler and belt produces noise at the contact and echos in the roller.

Yes, the pipe will cost from 30% to 100% more given that a conventional belt can be routed in a reasonable way.

The pipe advantages are: a) can negotiate more difficult terrain, b) encapsulate the product to save pollution, spillage, et al. Here the pipe is the better choice.

Lawrence Nordell

www.conveyor-dynamics.com ■

Further on the speed of a pipe conveyor. Although they are restricted by the same mechanical components ad a conventional conveyor, i.e. idler rotation etc they are able to and do often run faster because with dusty materials there is not the same disturbance of the material as on conventional conveyors.

Paul Holt

Dosco Overseas Eng Ltd ■

Further on power consumption, although most of the factors L Nordell mentioned regarding increased power consumption of the pipe conveyor are correct, there are also some factors not easily taken into calculations which produce lower consumtion.

On one of our installation we have a pipe conveyor and a conventional conveyor side by side carrying the same capacity and the power consumption is very similar in this case but it does depend on many factors and the layout.

Paul Holt

Dosco Overseas Eng Ltd ■

Q1 - Conventional normally about 20% to 30% cheaper

Q2 - We use plastic rolls on conveyors where they pass through inhabited areas to keep the noise right down. (Make sure you don't select seals that squeek though..it can be most annoying)

LSL Tekpro ■

Dear Mr.Peter,

Mr.Paul is very much correct in respect of power & noise generation.

I am working in one project where I did layout with two alternatives-one with pipe & other with standard conveyor.I find that cost of pipe conveyor is slightly less & power is little on higher side.In pipe conveyor the structural cost is very low.So I thing it is totally depend upon on layout.

I visited two installation & find they are running very smooth without creating any undue noise.

Regards.

A.Banerjee ■

Dear Sir

I fully agree with Mr Nordell in pipe conveyor noise is more than belt conveyor. At Birla copper where 3.2 Km pipe conveyor is installed we can feel from 25 m distance that pipe conveyor is running.

This abnormal sound is due to the fact belt passes thru ring of 6 rollers. when belt was new churning sound was much more due to radial force exerted by belt on rollers

Regarding the cost of pipe conveyor now in India so many manufacturers are supplying pipe conveyors and belt is also developed by new belt manufacturers cost is as high as it was 7-8 years ago

as a thumb rule following cost comparison can be considered

1.0 BELT Pipe conveyor requires higher belt width considering 65 percent filling factor. compared to conventional conveyor pipe conveyor belt width is about 25 percent higher. In addition to above pipe conveyor belt costs about 20-30 percent more than same width of conventional conveyor. Roughly pipe conveyor belt is 50 percent costlier than conventional conveyors.

2.0 Rollers

pipe conveyor requires 6 carrying and six return rollers after every 1.5 to 2 m distance where as belt conveyor requires 3 carrying roller at 1 -1.2 m distance and 1/2 return rollers at every 3 m distance. you will find no of rollers in pipe conveyor are double than conventional conveyors. Roller , bracket and panel cost in pipe conveyor is almost 60-70 percent more than conventional conveyors

3.0 structures

structure width is less as panel width is 30 to 35 percent less than stringerwidth of conventional conveyor. considering above structure cost is 20 percent lower

4.0 Drive unit

power requirement is 20/25 percent more. accordingly drive is 20/25 percent coslier in pipe conveyor

Engineering fees

most of the suppliers are either paying license fee or Engineering fees ranging from 3 to 6 percent which is not applicable for their in-house conventional conveyor design. Due to this cost increases by approx 5 percent

However in case transfer points can be avoided substantial saving can be achieved. due to cost of chute, dust extraction and cabling requirement for additional transfer point

In my opinion pipe conveyor should be tried at locations where conventional conveyor is not feasible and/or where cost saving is achieved from layout point of view.

A R SINGH ■

The earlier respondents have given lot of information about conventional belt conveyor vs. pipe conveyor. The problem arises when it is considered that both are competitor to each other i.e. when one thinks to replace belt conveyor by pipe conveyor, in all situations, or conversely, one thinks to replace pipe conveyor by conventional conveyor in all situations.

Both these equipment have very specific area of application i.e. in a particular technical situation one type of equipment would be ideal to get the required result.

For the people who have to actually install the equipment, best option is to invite quotation for both types of equipment and make techno-commercial evaluation of the same. This being a case of actual application, it will be free from exaggerations etc. because the same would create difficulty at the time of performance test.

Regards,

Ishwar G Mulani.

Author of Book : Engineering Science and Application Design for Belt Conveyors.

Advisor / Consultant for Bulk Material Handling System & Issues.

Email : parimul@pn2.vsnl.net.in

Tel.: 0091 (0)20 25882916 ■

Dear sir

It is not correct that belt conveyor supplier and pipe conveyor supplier are comptetor to each other.

Most of big pipe conveyor suppliers/ consultants are dealing with belt conveyors.

The only reason may be pipe conveyor suppliers are very few compared to belt conveyor suppliers.

with regards

A R SINGH ■

Dear Sirs

If you can feel extra noise from pipe conveyor at 25m then something is wrong.

On our pipe conveyor installations when only a few meters away people comment 'IS IT RUNNING' nothing can be heard.

Paul Holt

Dosco Overseas Eng Ltd

United Kingdom ■

Dear Sirs

If the noise is more with the pipe conveyor then something is wrong with the system.

On our pipe conveyor installations our customers comment that they do not know it is running when only a few meters away as it is so quiet.

Paul Holt

Dosco Overseas Eng Ltd.

United Kingdom ■

Dear Paul,

Your general claim about pipe conveyors having similar or less nolise than a conventional conveyor are not founded in basic engineering. I would like to wager that the pipe conveyor will always produce more noise ( I give you a 20% differential) than the conventional trough belt.

For the same tonnage, the pipe conveyor has more mass, belt-to-idler pressure and idler squeal, discounting the extra belt forming force required to hold the pipe form.

The pipe conveyor will typically run at a significantly higher speed, for the same belt width, creating more noise even discounting the doubling of idlers.

The use of twice as many rolls means more noise with twice as many drums to beat. Note, the pipe likes to rotate in crossection with varying load that does produce squeal when the operator tries to keep the seam up at full operating load.

Certainly, if you run it slow enough and with a light enough load, it might appear to have a low noise broadcast. It will not beat its trough belt counterpart.

Be true to the profession and not claim silk for burlap

. ■

Mr Paul

I donot know about your conveyors Iwas talking about noise at Birla copper pipe conveyor where belt is nylon-nylon, capacity is 1750 tph , installed power is 3x500 kw , length is 3.2 km speed is 4.5 m/sec and conveyor is having 90 degree curve..on this conveyor we can feel from 25 m particularly at (90 degree curve location ) that conveyor is running.

In any case when nos of rollers are 6 and belt is forced to pass between these rollers noise willbe more than conventional conveyors.

A R SINGH ■

we fully respect the statements and the advise given give by hon'

mr. nordell,but the last statement:----

Be true to the profession and not claim silk for burlap

is not digestable,i think the discussions in this forum is done by all the true professional.

regards, anil seth ■

Dear Mr. Paul,

I visited JINDAL DR Plant in INDIA. All transportation by convensional conveyor. I got CHATTERING sound every where & I could not stand for a minute.On the other hand I found very smooth running of pipe conveyor which has no bend.Pipe conveyor in BIRLA copper, they have changed a lot now.The generation of sound is mostly depend on alingment of idler ,quality of idler & after all the maintenance. Also depending on which plant you are visiting.DOSCO,UK have installed many pipe conveyors & we cannot ignore your experience in this field

Regards.

A.Banerjee ■

Dear Mr. Singh,

3.2 KM pipe conveyor in Birla copper supplied by NAVEEN Projects with ST.-1000,8x6mm cover,M-24, 1650mm wide belting.They claim it is running very smooth without any problem..But only refering BIRLA Copper installation, how can you conclude ......

Regards.

A.Banerjee ■

Respectfully Mr. Anil Seth,

The Dosco representative did make substantial claims on the superior performance of the pipe conveyor on a number of occasions. I anticipate this forum is for the dissemination of facts and enquiry of the how and why we strive to do better. One can claim, with references, of superior products, as is the case in point. One should not claim superiority without being able defend the request for efficacy of such claims by this forum.

I do agree your referenced comment by me demonstrated impatience on my part of sales hype. I accept your wise advise. ■

Dear Sirs

Please be sure we have taken official noise readings and found pipe conveyors to be very quiet even to run through a housing estate where noise would have been a problem and we have received no complaints. Of course if idlers are failing they will cause more noise (this is true for both).

Regarding basic engineering one of the reasons there is less noise is that when the belt is in the rigid pipe form there is less sag and also less deformation of the rubber belt (i.e. gliding through the idlers not hurdling) this also give some benefit in helping to lower power consumption, which is not easily calcuble.

Paul Holt

Dosco Overseas Eng Ltd ■

Dear Mr.Anil,

It is a good reply & at least you have pointed out. I also respect Mr.Nordell being knowledgiable person.Really I lost my interest in this forum & will request FORUM to cancell my name.Just think, with our busy schedule we are spending some time to get some knowledge from others. The replies I received,please refer THE THREADS- SPECIFICATION OF STEEL CORD BELTING &INCLINATION OF CONVEYOR. I request you to give your views on the same also.Pipe conveyor supplied by DOSCO,UK is very good.Mr. Paul is most experience man in this feild.I came to know him from my friend Mr. Baskar Datta who was very close to Mr.Paul.I presume this FORUM is not to HURT any body.

Regards.

A.Banerjee ■

dear snordell , i must accept your knidness,i think similar type of mistake done by us also shall be forgiven by the respectable members of the forum.

actually pipe conveyor was seems to be a very special equipment about a year back and some companies were trying to encash this ,i must appreciate the members of this forum,specially mr. a.r.singh (who did the wonderfull job of birla copper conveyorwith other gentlemen) for making this pipe conveyor as simpler as a conventional conveyor.

regards, anil seth ■

Dear Mr Banarjee

I fully agree with you This Forum is Not for Hurting any Body and for Marketing the product.You have indicated how i can conclude about noise by birla copper instalation. Please note that i have visited more than 35 instalations of pipe conveyors thoughout world . I have just given my views based on basic science beeing more nos of idlers noise should be more than conventional conveyors.

A R SINGH ■

Dear Mr. Singh,

Normally you refer one installation which is at BIRLA COPPER & also written it is having NN belting ( by mistake).I misuderstood you.Please excuse me.

Have a nice day.

Regards.

A.Banerjee ■