Dear Steeve,your name is very familiar to me.Now,from your message it seems that you would like to go for automation for the entire system.If I am correct then someone has to visit the site to access the situation.We at Libran Engineering design the entire system for material handling and take help from IT Industries for the automation of the plant. Synergy between two will bring a better result.

In India, we are designing the entire terminal for Bulk Materials like-Coal,Coke,Iron Ore,Cement,Fly ash,Fertliser and Minerals ect. We are working for world's renowned cos. like--

HALCROW

ROYAL HASKONING

AECOM

MOUNSE/AECOM

GAMMON

NOBEL

CES

KPMG

DREWRY

MERCATOR LINES

At present we are involved in 2 mega Iron Ore terminal @10 mtpa where we are preparing DPR and also acting as a sub consultant for Material Handling for Halcrow.

Please send us your detailed requirement enabling us to provide our feedback.We will also help you out to get knowledge of operation for similar type of installations.

Regards, Anil Seth

Director

Libran Engineering&Saervices,India

www.libranengineering.com

0091-9811055650

Originally Posted by SteveDavis

I would be interested to hear from anyone who has knowledge of an operation that has conveyor fed, rail mounted, travelling shiploader that operates autonomously, with no manual intervention other than set points etc.

In our situation the shiploader would have to be capable of around 10,000 t/h load rate, long travel over 1 km, and be able to load an undefinable range of ships in the Handi through Capesize classes.

Autonomous operation of stackers and reclaimers is common, shiploader will be more complex because of the variability in interface with ships.

Thanks

■

Manual intervention is mandatory during shiploading operations. Intervention is the prerogative of the Master or Deck Officer.

Other manual intervention can occur if it becomes necessary to close the hatches during torrential rainfall. There are also issues with Customs and Excise, Fire fighters and Trade Unions which make autonomous stevedoring a serious non-starter.

For an insight into the complexities involved you should refer to the threads on draft surveys etc. ■

Greetings

We agree with the above comments. Automation is doable, but full automation would be a stretch.

Once you have your project more defined, we would like to offer a Surplus 10,000tph Shiploader for sale. Capesize capable.

Please feel free to contact us for additional information.

Sincerely,

Al Goodmundson

Phone Canada (306)-664-7260

Email norsequip@sasktel.net ■

Originally Posted by SteveDavis

Hi louispanjang,

Thanks for the comments.

............. I see no reason why the operation could not be automated around this....

Regards

I gave you 4 reasons. There are plenty more. A fifth reason is that vessels are never left unattended before "Abandon ship!" so if there is a crew available let them do something. Operator wages are hardly likely to compensate for the higher insureance charges associated with automating a 400t machine activity. Then there is the cost of the autonation system itself to add to the insurance cost. After that comes the maintance cost of the automation system. Technology has its values, and they have limits. ■

There has to be someone in control during a ship load. There are always issues that arise that need to be handled with brain power(just a fact). Weather(rain and wind), pumping ballasts and keeping the ship level is a job for people. Sometime a load needs to be stopped at a moments notice. That's why they have a crew. I don't think there would be any way to get around it! ■

As louis and Enfernoknight has stated its a hands on operation with no room for error.

loading and stockpiling are dealing with gravity and angle of repose adn the load will only shift

if it is reclaimed or while being stacked before settling in its final angle of repose.

As a ship is a bouyant body resting in a fluid the fluid will simply move as the load is placed

in the hold against it and the fluid being unrestrained and allows the ship to move if the load is unstable

to see something like this up close and fully understand the mechanics of ship loading

you should visit a wave tank where ship testing and ocean modeling is done or contact

a marine architect to gain greater understanding before you can visit a wave tank

to see how water behaves on a ship and how the water surface tension affects ships as they have a solid surface

Loading a flat bottom barge is not an issue due near zero draft and displacement

where the load is spread by the loading action created by the conical pile created

by the loading method and the interior width of the barges hold and its low height

which aids in lock navigation and passing under some bridges with tugs that do

not have pilot houses or simple work boats like a Boston Whaler used for moving barges.

The Great Lakes traffic with ore boats are a limited size and width for several reasons,

many of the ore docks have gravity drop chutes which are loaded by bottom dump hopper

cars or ore jennies of a set capacity per ore bin which corresponds with the ore hold of a

lake boats which are have separate multiple compartments from what I remember for a

limited tonnage and to guarantee a proper fill and tonnage for the required draft for proper lock transit

and dockage-saying that in the last few years the water levels in the great lakes has been

dropping which is affecting the amount that can be carried in tonnage and these normal tonnages

can no longer be achieved and the boats must carry lighter tonnage loads due to the lower

water levels in the great lakes. this could be overcome by building ocean going barges.

The loading issue involved the proper loading and distribution of the material and this requires

the use of a ship trimmer which is operated by an employee in the ships hold whom controls

the loading boom and ship trimmer used to spot load the product in the ships hold while another employee

is overseeing this employee notifying the employee in the hold about the ships 0 degree X angle to avoid a rollover in dock

maintaining the ships Zero angle which is the XY intersection in the center of the ships beam while being loaded

and stops the loading entirely if the ship becomes unstable by the loading as the bulker ships holds are open from bow to engine compartment and fuel tanks

Unless a ship is dry docked in a lock that is capable of holding the ship level from bow to stern and across the beam of the

ship there is no real way to automate loading bulk materials in quantity and even then a ship trimmer will still be required

as the ship will be unstable when water is reintroduced in the dry dock if the ship trimmer is not used due to the ships hull design.

and water has no resistance when it applies to a ship that is unbalanced and rolls over or is hit by rogue wave broadside that is larger than the ship is

tall and as wide as the ships length.

there have been many instances of ships rolling over in dock when a load shifts accidently or has been loaded improperly

and a ship of any size has to maintain it buoyancy by staying level and has a limited amount of list angle and a point of no return when listing as they are not self righting due to the ship super structure and hull design and can not be overloaded and expect to transit without capsizing.

I hope I remembered the terms correctly.

lzaharis ■

Hi Steve,

You have probably seen this already but http://www.zdnet.com.au/rio-deploys-...-339304470.htm

Also, our company has recently been approached to help investigate the staged implementation of a fully automated coal shiploader. Currently we are investigating the use of a number of technologies including 3D scanning laser, video analytics and dGPS.

Regards ■

I would strongly suggest that you spend some time at the iron ore

loading docks on the great lakes as they have been doing this for

over a century now using drop gates with counterbalance weights

to load the lakers. you will see why the simplest way is the best way to load

anything. ■

Steve,

We too are looking towards automated shiploading. I tend to find the negative feedback along with all the ways "it cannot be done" rather than all the reasons it can rather dissappointing.

I'd be keen to hear of any progress you have made or any information you may have or like to share/discuss.

Darren

Originally Posted by SteveDavis

Thank you Izaharis for your words.

We are now getting into the psychology of engineering where at some stage in our lives we have to decide whether we as engineers actively seek solutions to problems or even seek problems to find solutions for, or where we seek problems that stop us looking for solutions.

I have some knowledge of shiploading, and all of the issues that keep being pointed out are real, and are reasons to look at how to automate. Automation is possible in spite of all of these variables. If we as humans can sense impending change and correct for this, then these same things can be monitored and corrected through automation. Furthermore, the reaction times of an automated system and the 100% attention span should reduce the problems encountered.

As a poor example, take a simple automated function of chute blockage, which we all take for granted. The system, if set up well, will register the start of blockage and implement shut down within milliseconds. It is live 100% of the time. If I were there looking at the level in the chute, I guess my attention would be wandering, but even if I did immediately pick up a problem my reaction time is seconds, often enough to cause a spill today. Sure there can be some errors with the automated system - but it has to be more reliable than me and a lot cheaper.

It may not be easy to automate shiploading, the amount of information and the program to interpret and react to that information makes for complexity.

Maybe a small start somewhere with manual back up until confidence is found.

Possibly we'll follow the dragline path where only part of the cycle is, to my knowledge, automated with the balance still currently manual. I believe that there have been significant productivity gains, which is what we are all after.

Key, as always, is understanding where the main benefit is and where it can go wrong so this can be programmed in. We certainly have plenty of data on this aspect of the operation.

But, back to my initial query, I was fairly certain that automated shiploading has not been done to date, but have been asked to consider the possibility for a project study. None of my direct contacts were aware of this being done hence the post.

It could be that this project becomes the first to implement some form of shiploading automation. If so I will post some detail.

If anyone is aware of any form of bulk material shiploading I would still be pleased to hear about it.

Cheers

■

"I tend to find the negative feedback along with all the ways "it cannot be done" rather than all the reasons it can rather dissappointing."

So, you're dissappointed. So what?

All the obstacles are valid. Ships officers rule the roost. Has any whippersnapper asked them lately?

For future reference, continuous ship loading started life as a bunkering activity: visit any maritime museum. Steam coal or anthracite was hurled into the bunkers while the cargo, passengers and provisions were being seen to. Things haven't changed that much and hopefully never will, except for the reduced dust levels. ■

Originally Posted by SteveDavis

I would be interested to hear from anyone who has knowledge of an operation that has conveyor fed, rail mounted, travelling shiploader that operates autonomously, with no manual intervention other than set points etc.

In our situation the shiploader would have to be capable of around 10,000 t/h load rate, long travel over 1 km, and be able to load an undefinable range of ships in the Handi through Capesize classes.

Autonomous operation of stackers and reclaimers is common, shiploader will be more complex because of the variability in interface with ships.

Thanks

Unmanned Automation (UA) of Shiploaders is now possible using a combination of GPS and 3D scanning technology. The following website gives details of iSAM's systems: http://www.isam-ag.com/unloader Note: The example shown on the website is a Grab Ship Unloader but iSAM are currently using similar technology for UA of Shiploaders. ■

Hello everyone,

It's been a while since the last post on this topic, which I personally find very interesting. I work for one of the largest iron ore producers in the world, however we still load our vessels in a traditional, manual way of operation. We load cape size vessels in a port with very high tides. Therefore, the environment is very dynamic. Currently, a lot of human interaction is needed, specifically during :

- Mapping the vessel

- Correcting the list of the vessel

- Communicating to a chief officer to request the new loading plan, to ask the vessel crew to tension the mooring lines etc.

- Monitoring vessel movements in the channel as they can cause the vessel we are loading to drift and consequently requesting the chief officer to tension the lines.

Is anyone aware whether automation of loaders working in such environments would be possible? ■

The following may be of interest:

https://www.bhp.com/news/media-centr...ed-shiploaders

Regards,

Lyle ■